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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

What is STOCK?

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Confused puller

08-26-2007 20:24:31




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Hey guys,
I know this issue has been brought up many times on this sight, but I am very confused...went to a pull today where we saw a Farmall H, that pulled in a 4,500# farm stock class, and it had a Super H carb on it,,,now, I'd say this isn't really stock, but what do you guys think?




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NOS88

08-28-2007 16:59:21




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
How about not offer any pay out or trophy? Give out a ribbon that says you won. I am not going to pull my modified 88 to say I won a ribbon in a stock class with uncut 13.6 tires. Wow good job. Normally in our area there is no pay out in stock classes and goes rather well. Most of the time a guy who spends more money on a tractor wants money if he wins. Not a ribbon or whatever. Speed limits help too. Only my opinion.

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mlpankey

08-28-2007 13:55:18




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
everybody with john deeres use the creaper gear first gear in the high low trasnmission thats why they cry about the mile an hour. i heard its the best of both worlds for the deeres even if they were never manufactured that way . its definately more of an advantage than a carb change. do away with stock classes it eliminates cheating



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mlpankey

08-28-2007 13:40:39




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
spend enough money to get into the antique pulling classes and dont worry about the stock classes anymore or keep youre money and quit pulling. its probably the highest motor sport i ever been in cause theres very little payback and no contigency money at all but its alot of fun to do with the twins when there not ready for full blown race cars.



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Jack a

08-28-2007 05:34:13




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
Stock means stock. If the rules say stock then that's what it's got to be. Stock is how the tractor came from the factory as standard equipment. If you have a tractor that has something other than that then you need to pull in another class. It's simple. The next class up from stock called Division 2 in some clubs allows for the farmer installed M&W kits or a replacement carb and 10% over rated HP. If that is the class you fit then you pull in that one not the stock class. Now others can twist what stock means to fit their own agenda like politicians but I leave that type of thing to Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents.

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Jon Aller

08-28-2007 06:24:07




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jack a, 08-28-2007 05:34:13  
EVERY manufacturer of tractors from the beginning of tractors were constantly improving their product line.
I am an IH guy so I will use them as an example. Farmer buys a 1939 M Farmall brand new. After a period of time he decides the tractor needs an overhaul. He takes the tractor to the dealership and requests an overhaul. They sell him a replacement set of pistons that are superior to the original set. They offer a slightly larger bore and higher compression and will allow the farmer to do more work with his tractor. They are less expensive and their latest design. The dealership also installs the factory ignition improvement package that compliments the increase in compression. The farmer leaves with an updated 1939 M farmall that originally had ~39 hp that now has ~50 hp. Fast forward 70 years and the same family still owns Grandpa's 1939 M. It probably saw at least one more overhaul if it was used very much and is still putting out 50+ hp. Is this tractor stock?

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Jack a

08-28-2007 10:03:26




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jon Aller, 08-28-2007 06:24:07  
If the ruels state no modifications then no. If the rules allow for M&W kits then yes according to rules but truly is not really out-of-the-box stock. Im my view that would be considered Out of the Field Class only.



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Jon Aller

08-28-2007 18:58:43




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jack a, 08-28-2007 10:03:26  
I never mentioned M&W. IHC sold their own products and produced improvements for every one of their machines as needed. All the other manufacturer as well. It is easy with a sleeved engine to re-sleeve to stock bore, but most wouldn't. If you have a sleeve-less block it is automatic to use the next size over-bore during a rebuild.

Using your definition, you would be lucky to find very many "stock" tractors that are not already in a museum or on display with a private collection.

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Jack a

08-29-2007 04:07:09




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jon Aller, 08-28-2007 18:58:43  
I don't care if it's M&W or IH parts, if the rules say no modifications then that's the rules. An M the was 36 hp and now is 50 even using IH parts isn't stock any longer. You don't like the rules of a certain pull then don't pull or change classes wher division 2 type rules are in effect. Or lobby your the club to do away with a stock class. My club for awhile changed stock to stock appearing and then watched as the number of pullers dropped like a rock. Changed back. What I don't like is when the rules say one thing and another thing is allowed and then I'm called a whiner by the very people who justify in their own minds that their nonstock tractor is stock enough. What more can I say.

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WTW

08-29-2007 06:56:03




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jack a, 08-29-2007 04:07:09  
I supose you think you are going to find a virgin in a wh@re house too!



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AC

08-29-2007 06:33:14




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Jack a, 08-29-2007 04:07:09  
JackArse, Go find me an unrebuilt, original tractor that a guy could to take to a pull. Such as an International with the factory wire still through the governor, and soldered together. Things like that. Uh, the DONT EXIST like that anymore...So take your worn out raggedy, bounce up and down, plug fouling Deere (you must be a Deere guy, judging by your endless refusal to see a point) and have a big slice of fresh GET OVER IT!!!

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Jack a

08-29-2007 08:17:40




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to AC, 08-29-2007 06:33:14  
First off I didn't call you a name so please don't lower the debate by calling me a name. Second something done that doesn't affect hp or weight really doesn't matter but there is a class in many places for your slightly horsed up M or whatever. It's usually called division 2 class or out of the field. You stick to that. Third I'm am absolutely NOT a Deere fan. And last I made an effort to keep my WD and D17 stock. It was easy you don't opt for the upgrade overhaul kit. Last I checked you still can get the original pistons and sleeves from Howard Enterprises. Make an effort. Otherwise pull in another class!

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dboll

08-28-2007 05:24:54




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
somebody should delete the word stock from the English language! That carb isn't going to make that big of a difference. Good point AC!!!!



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Dairy farmer in WI

08-27-2007 10:08:20




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
i pull an M with dome pistons in it but it is still the same bore. i go out and do farm work after i'm done pulling it. the main clue that it's not stock is usually pressed steel. mine still has all the original cast whells on it and they hydralics and that stuff. we all have different views of stock



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Mopower

08-27-2007 07:47:00




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
Our club (CAFPC)defines stock as not using any part that is not listed in the parts book for that make or model. Catalog replacement parts are ok but must bolt on. Rebuild (M&W pistons) parts are acceptable. Hitches must be stock appearing. RPM must be no more than 10% over factory and rims MUST be same size as sold. Tires are allowed one size over I believe. There is wiggle room here but many from out behind the barn had maybe a bump up in tire size or a sloppy governor. So far all of our stock competitors are pretty happy and our 2.5 mph speed limit weeds out some of the hot dogs that might sneak in.

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Mike n Mo

08-27-2007 07:24:38




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
I'd have to agree with the earlier posts. You need to worry about the things that matter, like hitch height being checked on EVERY tractor as it crosses the scale, as well as weight being correct. Those 2 things will give a puller a lot more advantage than a carb that isn't too far from being the right one. If he had a Holley Dominator (and the engine to go with it) I might be concerned. Mike



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LG

08-27-2007 05:33:08




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
If you beat him anyway, then who in hell cares, quit your bitchin'. It's a competition and there are winners and losers, get over it. If every tractor was stock or factory condition, it would be very competitive would it? It's all about who can build a better stock appearing tractor.



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Jon Aller

08-27-2007 04:56:12




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
There is nothing to be confused about. You would need to dig into the rules for that particular pull to determine the legality of using a later series(Super, 300/350) carb and or manifold and carb on an H.

As for finding an original (unmodified in any way) old tractor, good luck.



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ShaggyM

08-26-2007 21:10:52




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
To me STOCK is what you find behind the neighbors barn. His DAD or Grandpa bought it new and ran it until it almost died then parked it. And you bought it.
I am by no means a expert.
Shaggy



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Confused puller

08-26-2007 21:16:08




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to ShaggyM, 08-26-2007 21:10:52  
That's what a guy said he did, right before he beat us. I don't believe in anything stock anymore.



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Gary from Muleshoe

08-26-2007 20:29:51




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
Stock is what ever you can do and not get caught at it. LOL

There are not many true stock pulling tractors out there most have been modified in some way or another.

Just my opinion.



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puller44

08-27-2007 04:41:42




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 08-26-2007 20:29:51  
this can and will go on forever about whats stock!! stock is what? change tires from the ones that came out on the tractor--4ply to 6ply stock or what you can buy!! the list never quits--like did you buy it at denny's or the ih dealer whats stock!!
oem means from the company that made the tractor--how many tractors have you work on thru the years that had the orginal carb. on it, one goes bad another was put on it--i work at a dealership that sells parts for older tractors and if it will fit the man will buy it to get the tractor running again, does that mean it not stock for the tractor or it will fit and i'm going to go back bushhogging or working the ground. so think about it the man maybe telling you the truth its from behind the barn. quit complaining and work on beating him at the track not on what he has on the tractor. is your carb pre-1960 or is it a replacement think about it. my 2 cent worth for today!!!

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Andy Motteberg

08-26-2007 20:28:48




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:24:31  
Are you sure it wasn't a Super H??



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Confused puller

08-26-2007 20:54:30




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Andy Motteberg, 08-26-2007 20:28:48  
Yes, we checked the serial number, and the it said it was an H,,,but we beat him anyway, so we never said anything. LOL



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AC

08-27-2007 08:45:58




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 Re: What is STOCK? in reply to Confused puller, 08-26-2007 20:54:30  
No Wonder you are a "Confused Puller" You dont even know if you won or lost. First you said he beat you, then you said you beat him. Get your story straight before you get everone fired up.



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