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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Hey ChadS H Head Studs

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IndianaRed

06-22-2007 07:47:57

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Hey ChadS, (or anyone),

Got tired of bothering everyone with dumb questions in the Farmall forum so thought I would ask this here. I'm close to getting everything back together on my H rebuild, but have a problem. All my head studs seem to be too short. If I take them down all the way there isn't enough left for the nut to grab. I believe my H was originally all fuel, has three holes in the hood, and no X on serial tag. But my head is an 8043. Is there a difference in how tall these heads are? To where if someone switched the heads and not studs there could be a problem? They all seem about 1/2 short. Even bought two of the longer ones yesterday from IH, came home put them in, and too short. What the heck??

Help appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian

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ChadS

06-24-2007 08:56:07

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to IndianaRed, 06-22-2007 07:47:57

There is only 2 that are longer than the rest, and they go where the throttle linakge bolts to the head. All the others are the same length. 3 thick washers, go on the very center bolt, and just to the right and left of the center bolt, the two inner head studs get a washer. I made a mistake a few years ago on my H, after replacing a head gasket, I screwed the studs in as far as I could. It did not leave me much to put a nut on, maybe just enough for the nut to have 2 threads showing after it was tight. Upon taking a stock H apart, they were not screwed in all the way in the block, maybe had 3 or 4 threads sticking out the block deck. Could have been only 2 or 3 threads sticking out,,, its a judement call on that. Took the same bolts from that block, put em in my puller, put em exactly where the old stock H had em as far as how far they went in the block, and had no problems. they had about 2 or 3 threads of the stud sticking out the top of the nut. Headgasket needing retorqued will take up some space too, so, keep an eye in that area when you first tighten it down. The threads of the stud get weak towards the ends so make sure you have a thread or a few thru the nut before you torque them down. They will stip when you least expect it. Havent found brand new ones yet. Chad

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IndianaRed

06-24-2007 10:09:00

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to ChadS, 06-24-2007 08:56:07

Well that makes me feel a better. Thought I was losing it, or seeing things.

I did ask a few people I trust and they all said they don't remember haftin to leave them up a few threads, and I can't imagine they would engineer it that way. Less to keep water from coming up, just seems less stable to me.

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a heigth difference in heads between all-fuels/dist. and straight gassers?

I ordered 2 new long studs from IH, put them in and if I take them all the way down, they are just right for all, not just the long two. So I went back and ordered all new long ones for all, and will just leave a thread or two up on the longer two. Even on the longer two, I have to leave a couple threads out for them to be long enough to accept linkage and another nut.

After taking them all out I lined them up, and I do have 3 different sizes. Don't know if someone couldn't find the right ones, where they woulda come from, but there are two different sizes of shorter ones.

This is unfair stuff for a newbie to be trying to figure out!

Thanks All,

Brian

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Melvin Campbell

06-23-2007 20:42:40

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to IndianaRed, 06-22-2007 07:47:57

Brian,
I believe the studs should be 6 and an eighth inches long.. If that is what you have, I am stumped too. I just purchased mine from ARP. They where less than half of the price from an International dealer and probably better steel.
Mel

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IndianaRed

06-23-2007 21:03:18

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to Melvin Campbell, 06-23-2007 20:42:40

Thanks Melvin,

I don't have any idea where someone got these studs, or why they put them in this tractor. I got to that ARP site, but couldn't find the right size. Need to go back and find them. Ya, $12ea. at IH is a little salty.

Thanks,

Brian

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superih

06-25-2007 05:44:19

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to IndianaRed, 06-23-2007 21:03:18

Call ARP and tell them what you need, they can give you a part number, and order direct from them. You should also get ARP nuts and washers, put washers on all studs, will help by evenly torquing the head and not allowing the nut to gall against the cast iron head. Purchase the ARP lube and ask the recommended torque value for your studs when using the lube. You can go 10 to 20 ft-lbs over what they tell you.

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Drew

06-25-2007 17:44:35

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to superih, 06-25-2007 05:44:19

What exactly do you think you are gaining by overtorquing fasteners?

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ChadS

06-26-2007 07:22:18

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to Drew, 06-25-2007 17:44:35

Warpage over time. Properly followed book specs follow the number pattern, and not do it all at one torque and walk away. Takes two, sometimes three rechecks of the bolt torques to get them all seated and best even distribution of pressure. Most Ive ever went was 5 over, but it had alot of cyl pressure.

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superih

06-26-2007 14:08:30

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to ChadS, 06-26-2007 07:22:18

A block or head is warped as soon as you torque an engine down, that is why a a torque plate should be used before finish honing is done, you will see slight belling to the cylinders. If the deck of the block is weak over torqueing can distort the deck of the block enough that a gasket won't seal.
Bolt force holding the head to the block must be greater than any net forces pushing against it. If you have high cylinder pressures, you may need to over torque - example head stud sets for performance Cummins engines use ARP studs and instruct you to torque beyond recommended to hold against the tremendous cyclinder pressure.

I am not saying to over torque, just stating that you can get away with it.

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ChadS

06-28-2007 07:46:18

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to superih, 06-26-2007 14:08:30

Especially with blocks that have pressed in sleeves. Nothing to really to say hold them in when they bore them to fit, and hone, unless they hard block it first,,, but if they hone the block after the hard block set up, due to distortion from the hard block, Id imagine the hard block can crack as soon as the first time the head was torqued down due to flex. Why not bolt the torque plate on the deck, after the sleeves were set, hard block the water jackets, and let it sit till its ready. Then go back and finish up Hone. But as soon as the torque plate is removed, will the hard block hold it all in place and be stronger? Or will it flex back, and fracture the hard block, or the area of where the block around the sleeve, if its thin to a water jacket,,, will be a waterless block real quick. Chad

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superih

06-25-2007 05:44:12

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to IndianaRed, 06-23-2007 21:03:18

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TDM

06-22-2007 09:53:42

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Re: Hey ChadS H Head Studs in reply to IndianaRed, 06-22-2007 07:47:57

As far as I know, the studs are the same for the gas or distillate head. I'm stumped.

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