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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

M compression and rebuild questions

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PoppinJohn720

01-28-2007 18:49:59




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I checked the compression on my wife's 49 IH M today. I warmed the engine up and held the throttle wide open while cranking for the compression test. I only pulled one plug at a time if this matters. My dry test yeilded 110 psi and wet was 120psi. This engine has the 8060 head but i dont know about the pistons or bore size. This tractor is stock and pulls stock. It starts easy and runs smooth. It runs a M carb with ChadS modifications that were listed on this board. It has a bit stiffer and tad shorter governor spring. Im running a distributor with medium springs from a MR Gasket advance curve kit. Throttle response is good. On the dyno this tractor made 38-39 hp with quite a bit of blow by spewing out the breather tube. I havent dynoed it since drilling out the carb jet. This tractor will just pull down and die during a pull. It sounds good when you flog the throttle but as soon as you here it lug down the least little bit when pulling it will just fall on its face and other "stock" tractors in the class will just motor right on by our distance. We are running 13.6X38 Firestones and we dont spin out. We flat power out and get beat by a fresh overhauled M and a 300 that pulls like a freight train. Im trying to convince myself that this tractor needs and overhaul but I hate to throw parts and money at something that I dont need. Is my compression to low? I was hoping for 150-160psi instead of 110. What should I do? Wife says she's tired of getting blown out of the water due to low power. Thanks for the advice.

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CLIFF S

01-29-2007 18:30:53




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-28-2007 18:49:59  
Have you adjusted your timing and carb on the Dyno ? My old 39 M with 105 compression and a kerosine head Dynos 41 Hp at 540 on the pto and 51 at 400 and Lougs Good with 13.6x38 tires!



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PoppinJohn720

01-29-2007 20:35:16




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to CLIFF S , 01-29-2007 18:30:53  
I adjusted it back in the summer when I was running a mag on it and all we could get was about 39-40. I changed to a distributor and tweaked on the carb and havent ran on dyno since then. The engine responds better and pulls just a little better but still just powers out. This tractor wont spin tires and appears to have little low end torque.



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CLIFF S

01-30-2007 04:50:57




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-29-2007 20:35:16  
Sounds like Too Much advancement on your Distubitor Timing! I would put it back on the Dyno and tune it first! It may be all you need!



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PoppinJohn720

01-29-2007 18:02:36




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-28-2007 18:49:59  
I still like to use this tractor for some farm work. I want more power but I still want it farmable. We pull 5600-6600 3mph. Stock u frame with loop bolted on it. 18" hitch height. 13.6 x38 Firestone field and roads uncut and soft. Ive considered boring the block out and putting 450 over bore kit in this M block. Can this be done? Will this work with my stock rods? How can I besure Im getting the right cam and not a new cam ground to M specs? I want this tractor to be the stoutest M I can get and still be farmable. I will build a real wild one next time.

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ChadS

01-30-2007 12:51:46




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-29-2007 18:02:36  
Thats an exact description of my M before I built the engine up a little. Its pulling great,,, but then it lays down when you get to the good spot, bout 10 feet behind the leader. Yes, you can put the 450 sleeves in the M block, you have to bore the M block to 4.25, and remachine the 450 sleeve flange to the M flange specs, hone the block a little, put the sleeves in the freezer and drop them right in. SM-450 cam, and a 8060 head is whats in my M,,, I pull up to 7500 with stock drawbar loop, 18 high, and 14.9's 3 mph and we have a very heavy transfer sled,,, Ive still yet to find a track in northern Indiana that has made it power stall out in low gear at my heaviest weight. It works the engine but it takes off down the track when its in its torque curve.

The old M cam is whats holding back your potential low end torque curve, you would have a change by the seat of your pants just by the cam swap. Jmho ChadS

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PoppinJohn720

01-30-2007 16:04:44




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to ChadS, 01-30-2007 12:51:46  
Will my M rods work with the 450 pistons (wrist pin dia?)? Why do you say hone the block a little after boring? If I bore the block out to take the 450 sleeves will the block wall to water jacket be thick enough to handle routine farm work or will it be pull er then shut it off as soon as the pull run is over? Thanks you folks for all the help.



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ChadS

01-30-2007 16:14:46




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-30-2007 16:04:44  
Use late 400 wrist pin bushings. Late 400's had the same rod as the M with the small pin. Just hone it lightly,, it helps,, fresh bores can be tight, and make the sleeve install very difficult. Early M blocks,,,, is what you want to stay away from,, from 48 and up, you have a better chance to find a better block. Just pull the water plate off the block and inspect the casting of the bores. IF, they are flaky rusty pitted very deep, its not a good canidate. They do get thin at the bottom, but the sleeves will support it as long as the guy boring the block dont get in a hurry and poke a hole in the bore from impatience. Fast job quick, wont be good,, good job slow,,, you get the best. Hope this helps, Chad

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PoppinJohn720

01-30-2007 16:30:23




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to ChadS, 01-30-2007 16:14:46  
But will the tractor still be useable on the farm or will it just be a trailer queen?



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ChadS

01-30-2007 16:34:27




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-30-2007 16:30:23  
If the block is good to start with, you can do anything you would normally do with it. What happens is,, old rusty blocks rot from the water jackets in,,, but if the block is good,, no problems. Chad



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PoppinJohn720

01-30-2007 16:38:23




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to ChadS, 01-30-2007 16:34:27  
This makes sense to me. Thank you.



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LIVIN LUCKY

01-29-2007 09:15:09




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-28-2007 18:49:59  
I HERE U I HAD A M THAT DID SAME THING AFTER NEW MOTOR BUT OLD CAM.REBUILD IT. PUT THE 450 CAM IN IT . CHANGE THE AIR IN THE CARB ULL BE HAVE THE HEAD MILLED AND WATCH IT COME ALIVE .I DID TALK TO CHAD AND GOOD ADVICE I HAVE 15-5-38 TIRES ABOUT 2100 RPMS 80 HP



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ChadS

01-29-2007 08:05:52




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 Re: M compression and rebuild questions in reply to PoppinJohn720, 01-28-2007 18:49:59  
Can you shine a light down into the spark plug hole, while a piston is up on Top Dead Center,, to see what kind of, or if any dome is on the piston??? Typical rebuild kits for M's are a small half moon shape dome, 8060 head, is in the 135-140 psi range. bout 58-60 hp is bout it for that engine stock,,, Its not a bad engine for a small tire, low gear puller running 5000-5500 farm stock classes,with a stock hitch,,, but it lays down to quick when it matters most. I belive the old M cam is not helping, so upgrade it to a Super M-450 camshaft, (C264-C281 engines) It can be good for some more low end power out of the M,, you can shave the head down some, depends on if you use it on the farm still to determine how much to remove off the head. Consider a sleeve and piston kit, or if the sleeve and pistons are in good shape and are not flat tops,, maybe a ring swap and hone the sleeves and clean up the pistons. With the new cam, reringed, and shaved the head some, it would help quite a bit and you wont have alot of cash in it. You have some,, but not much. LOL! Thats what Id do if I needed a small boost. Now, what kind of classes are you pulling??? weight classes,, Hitch setups, tire sizes? Chad

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