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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Jim Benjamin--DQ'd

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Tim Johnson AC

11-18-2006 19:31:06

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While pulling at Columbia, Mo pull with our AC WCm we waited around to watch rest of the day.. What a tough track! Great work crew. Saw the King of the Hill get busted for having cut tires in the uncut classes! They were the sharpest set of 30 degree tires we had ever seen. Glad they stood up to himand tossed him out. I had a friend that had an M Farmall he waxed one whole year with those cut tires and my buddy finally quit. Glad to see this guy got his wrist slapped!! (and cuffed)

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joyride

11-25-2006 11:51:55

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

hello.
cant we all just GET-ALONG.

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This is all to funny!

11-22-2006 19:51:30

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

My name is Tom Benjamin, i am the guy that pulls this farmall M with soupposedly "cut" tires. These tires have passed tech 4 years in a row, they just passed once again 2 weeks ago, by two of the same people who DQed them in columbia.
It is just too funny that so many people have so much to say about a judgement call that was invoked by a coupple of whiners.
#1 the tires ARE rounded on the front
#2they were DQed because a small portion of the bar didn't touch the concrete.
#3 anyone who knows anything about ag tires knows that when a tire is young, or new, or soft, it sits down differentaly than it does when it is 30 years old and hard, cracked and dry rotted.
#4 these tires ran 3 years on an 88 oliver, it never won a national championship, so no one complained, all of a sudden, on an "M", they win, so now its an issue.
#5 my dad had scoured the countryside, looking for tires that will "work" on the pulling track. i am sure that we have 3 or 4 other sets that will work just as well.
#6 if i could afford it i would be pulling div. 3 or 4, their is just to much complaining in div. 2.
#7 we weren't the only ones who got DQed, their were several outher guys that were told not to bring their tires back. #8 my dad is competitive in anything he does, he is not a "cheater".
#9 if this doesn't answer a few questions, maby some people need to know the facts before they spread rumors.

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Gary Baker

11-23-2006 06:06:22

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to This is all to funny!, 11-22-2006 19:51:30

Well said

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11-23-2006 04:37:19

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to This is all to funny!, 11-22-2006 19:51:30

You tell 'em. Your dad is a class act of a guy, and the best track reader I have ever seen. AC

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slow mo 57

11-21-2006 08:21:06

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

Here is the the 2 problems I see in div-2.First let me say I have learned a way to enjoy IT.Big engines close to twice hp.Then the tires.1st big engine do not always need great tiires they can some times over come with ok tires.But lower hp can run with them on average tires.They can not hook all hp.So here is how I made it fun for me and my kids that pull.Run tractors with less money in them.Then when we do good-and some times win.We are happy when we are cloe to high hp with very little money in them.There is more than one way to win. In your own mind do good you are still a winner.After all this is a SPORT NOT LIFE--DROP THE STRESS--JUST HAVE FUN YOU--!!!In my eyes tractor was mostly mint for field not road.IT SHOULD BE FIELD WORN TIRES.The field worn tires can look layed back but but leading edge will not be sharp.It will look rounded we all know the look.

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Marty in Mich

11-20-2006 18:24:20

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

If those tires are the ones I'm thinking about,I believe that I was over to Jim's house the day he unloaded them from his trailer.Jim doesn't show much emotion,but he was obviously excited about buying them a few days earlier at an auction sale.I offered him $300 for them,but he wouldn't sell them.He would have quadroupled his money.One thing people need to know about Jim and his boys:THEY DO NOT NEED TO CHEAT!Just watch all three of them at any pull anywhere.They are always out on the track looking for the best spot to pull,and they do well because of it.They will almost always have their tractors balanced perfectly.If the tires in question are the one's I'm thinking about,they are 15.5's and they were mounted backwards on a sprayer with a 500 gallon tank,and they had awesome road-wear.They are the once in a lifetime tires that everyone is talking about.I'd be willing to bet that if the same tires were on someone elses tractor two things would have happened.(1)They would not have won.(2)Not one person would have complained.7 or 8 years ago,maybe even 9 years,my wife pulled her E-3 CO-OP in division 2.She was leading in the point's all year long,when low and behold at the championship pull she had 3 tech guys studying her tires.We walked up to them as they were laughing and pulling the rubber tips off the bars.Seems some sore losers had complained to the tech guys about her altered tires.The tech guys were joking about what a good job we did sharpening them then putting the rubber tips as well as the 13.6 numbers back on the bars!We got sick of all the complaining that went on in division 2,so we just moved up to division 3.I certainly hope J.B. and sons stay in 2 and show the winers how to be winners.Hey Jim,I've got a set of 14.9X38 turf tires you ought to throw on that M.Of course then you'd get accoused of running a slick in a D.O.T. class! See everyone in Ohio for some deep fried turkey.
Marty

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14.9's

11-20-2006 19:40:47

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Marty in Mich, 11-20-2006 18:24:20

Correction Marty, they were 14.9's...I heard through the grapevine that he had 3+ days in the prep work on them...

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Marty in Mich

11-21-2006 17:02:56

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to 14.9's, 11-20-2006 19:40:47

Listening to people (or reading about it in this instance) reminds me of an old segment they used to run on HEE HAW.There were a group of gossiping women sitting in a circle.Before they started their gossip session,they always sang a song,and I believe the words went something like this:OH,WE'RE NOT ONES TO GO 'ROUND SPREADIN' RUMORS. NO,REALLY, WE'RE JUST NOT THE GOSSIPIN' TYPE.NO,YOU'LL NEVER HEAR ONE OF US REPEATIN' GOSSIP. SO YOU BETTER BE SURE AND LISTEN CLOSE THE FIRST TIME! Does that remind You of anyone You know?(HINT:Look in mirror) Marty

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11-21-2006 17:25:18

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Marty in Mich, 11-21-2006 17:02:56

HEE HAW Marty? You take me WAAAAAYYYYY Back! See you Saturday. Did you work on my old tires at all?

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A.P.

11-21-2006 04:19:56

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to 14.9's, 11-20-2006 19:40:47

A rumor is still just that,a rumor. Were there grind marks on the tires? Was there rubber powder in the nooks and crannies? Was there a video tape or an eye witness showing some one working on that specific set of tires? Was there really any proof?

I have seen people accused of running sharpened tires that weren't and others running tires with the grind marks very visible without any one complaining. Still another group will not allow even road worn tires. Brand new tires or field tires with a rounded front edge are the order of the day. It sounds like allowing top bar cut tires would level the playing field.

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grind marks

11-24-2006 07:32:02

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to A.P., 11-21-2006 04:19:56

According to Marty, it's easy to hide the grind marks.

Marty in Mi. 06-25-2005 10:34:35
206.160.141.245
60483

ANYONE can grind their tires and then hit them with a rosebud and literally catch them on fire,then brush them off with a leather glove and make them look like road worn tires.I gaurntee you that can't tell the difference.Before our humble little club went to top cut tires,we used to have the same few people winning every time,without exception.All it took was one person to have one too many beers and spill his guts and reveal his dirty little secret about how his road worn tires actually became road worn.These few people were the one's who were most adamently against changing our tire rules because they did not want to loose their edge.Now everyone has the same chance to win.One thing I've noticed over the years is this:typically the ones doing the most whining about tire rules are typically the same individuals who have historically done the most cheating(as in spinning them backwards,grinding then hitting with rosebud,etc.Heck,some have gone as far as driving their tractors to work in hope of getting that little bit extra road wear.That way they can still maintain that their tires have never been touched!)All of you folks reading this just take a look at just who is doing the most griping within your clubs about tires and you'll see that they are usually the ones that have a good set of road worn tires(sharpened naturally by the road of course).The other small segment of the clubs population who does not want to see them are the ones who have purchased a new set of rubber,and they are getting beat up pretty bad by the road worn tires.Bottom line is this:A sharp tire is a sharp tire,and I don't give a rip about how it became that way.I have personally sharpened quite a few sets of tires that are currently pulling in the farm stock classes(div.2)and I don't care what kind of expert you claim to be,you can not tell the difference between them and the other road worn tires out there.I have a set right now that is undergoing a MAJOR transformation,in that very soon they will become sprayer tires.Now that process is very time consuming,but that type of road wear appears to be the one that is doing the most winning right now in the stock classes.Don't get me wrong here.I'm certainly not trying to promote cheating in any way,shape,or form.What I am trying to promote is an even and level playing field for everyone.Repeat this over and over in your mind:A sharp tire,is a sharp tire,is a sharp tire,is a sharp tire,is a sharp tire,and it doesn't matter how it became that way,IT'S STILL SHARP!

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A.P.

11-25-2006 02:46:38

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to grind marks, 11-24-2006 07:32:02

So if the grind marks can be removed how can you tell for sure that a tire was sharpened by the puller rather than by how they were used before the puller got them? How the tires are worn depends on how it was used, what the tire pressure was, the rim width, whether it was mounted with tubes or without, whether they were loaded with fluid (chloride or whatever), how heavily they were loaded, the surface they were run on, how long they sat in one position, How straight the wheels run, etc. So I guess the question boils down to how do you tell if they have been sharpened? Do we need an inspection stamp that can be burned into the top of several bars (all ?) to signify that the tires have passed inspection and are not subject to review unless you can show that there are now grind marks on them?

I want everything to be legitimate to, but a way to make sure that the decisions are not arbitrary or different from pull to pull is just as important in the long term.

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grind marks

11-25-2006 08:56:00

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to A.P., 11-25-2006 02:46:38

AP, good question - Last I checked, we were pulling tractors in a competition. Competition being the operative word. You wouldn't take a 2006 Monte Carlo to Daytona and expect to run with the Nascar guys would you? There's no class for a "stock" tractor (except maybe Div I), and there's no reason for top cut or road worn tires. If you want a place to use your stock tractor, there are parades and exhibitions you can go to. Yeah, I'd like to load up the stock M and WC and go pulling, but they'll get clobbered.

The people that seem to like that rule are the ones that either have a "cheater cut", or a really nice pair that is road worn and is hard to come by. And those who have a Div III or IV tractor but either can't compete in those divisions, or in some cases, want to compete against more people.

My opinion - Just allow whatever cut you want and have at it. It's hard to cheat if there isn't a rule against it.

I've never met or even know who Jim B. is but judging by the comments, I'll bet that his tractor is a Div III or IV tractor with "uncut" tires and a lower drawbar.

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A.P.

11-25-2006 10:29:38

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to grind marks, 11-25-2006 08:56:00

The Thomas' tractor would be to week for division 3 as it exists today. 10-15 years ago it would have done ok, but not any more. It would never have been competitive in division 4. If the tractor would be competitive in division 3, that would be where Thomas would pull it.

The whole Benjamin clan will flat out out pull you. On their tractor or your own tractor most of the time. They excel at reading the track and driving their tractors.

Good road worn tires are hard top find, but they are out there especially if you don't have to have a 14.9 x 38" or some such size. People just need to keep you eyes and ears open, know where to look and make sure others know what you are looking for.

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G-Money

11-22-2006 06:01:24

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to A.P., 11-21-2006 04:19:56

On the subject of top cut tires. If you allow top cut tires in farm stock classes it is really not farm stock, because the engine would have to be mechanically altered or it would choke out every time. Top cuts will tell how stock a tractor is.

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A.P.

11-22-2006 10:03:27

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to G-Money, 11-22-2006 06:01:24

I agree with you to some extent, but a lot of tractors can run top cut tires without stalling out. Some have a slow enough first or second gear that they can pull them. I wish division 2 was no more than M&W pistons and sleeves (or TSC Power blocks) but I seem to be in the minority. As far as top cut tires, I view them as a way to end the debate of which tires are road worn. Over the years I've witnessed a few off base statements in both directions about which tires are road worn and which are cut. My dad has a beautiful set of tires on a D-17 loader tractor that is used on cement barnyard. Now those tires are sharp and hard from what is normal use for that tractor. But that tractor has never seen a pulling track nor have the tires.

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Captainhookerus

11-19-2006 21:59:49

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

This tire rule has been a point of contention ever since the restoration classes of I and II were written. Who would ever thought that II would become a money class that III, VI and V pullers would jump into. We thought that probably radials should be brought into the mix as good used radials were becoming easier to find. This being ruled out, the new or full cuts were discussed and both were ruled out. Now we have road worn tires as an only option. A perfect set of road worn tires comes only in a life time. Now what do we do? We have to make the playing field more equal by some other means. We can't make rules that can't be policed. One answer is to make the sled chain so goofy long that 50% of tractor weight will be pulled or take the money out of the class. Since div I and II were supposed to stock restoration classes, how did they become the money classes?

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Warren Townsend

11-20-2006 05:30:48

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Captainhookerus, 11-19-2006 21:59:49

Very good post "noncut "tires are a huge problem anywhere I pull ,I have voiced my opinion that topcuts be allowed in Div II to end the judgment calls and complaints about are them tires legit or not. I agree with you on the perfect set of roadwore tires coming along once a lifetime I have a set and they give me alot of grief also. In my opinion you either allow topcuts or mandate new tires only ,I dont feel the later is the answer though. Every tire that is not new has been altered either "roadworn",sun cured for hardness. and all tires have different traits of wearing . Also the accuations and personal attacks on here need to STOP NOW !!I would not wish what happened there on anyone,I know I had it happen to me over a replacment part "Gray Area"its not fun to drive that far and get slammed .

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cut's cut

11-20-2006 16:22:20

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Warren Townsend, 11-20-2006 05:30:48

You guys are pi$$ing and moaning about what's a cut tire and what's not and overlooking the obvious. You'll contend that Div II is supposed to be a "stock" class, so no cut tires, but find me a stock tractor that's competitive. Seems there's more Div III tractors with different tires in there than "stock" tractors. You can't have a powerblock in a Deere, but you can have all new parts on the insides as long as you can't see it. Div II seems to be where everyone who couldn't make it in Div III ended up.

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Gary Baker

11-20-2006 14:24:36

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Warren Townsend, 11-20-2006 05:30:48

I totally agree Warren. New tires for everyone(not practical), use the same tires for everyone(not practical) or allow top altered tires. If you can't agree with this in Div 2 you are only thinking of yourself. Just because you found that once in a lifetime pare of tires worn just right. Fare is fare. JMHO

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Absolutely

11-22-2006 08:50:27

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Gary Baker, 11-20-2006 14:24:36

Absolutely Gary, Bill Bear and Bill Burch both got there way when they were on the board too. Bear got to pull his outlaw tractor with its outlaw engine. Burch got WC RPM rules changed to his favor which still are today. Why in the world shouldn't Benjamin get to run altered tires in the Div. II classes. Its nice that you support your fellow past and present colleagues! Personally I could give a rats A$$ how theses tire got their sharp edge or which state or county blacktop top they used to do it on or whether he used some other method. If the front edge is sharp it don't belong in the Div. II classes. Like you, I have my opinion too, If you really want to end the gripping, just adopt USAP rules and give everybody the same option and quit playing favorites. But that would be a big change for NATPA now wouldn't it!

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11-23-2006 04:42:29

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Absolutely, 11-22-2006 08:50:27

So then YOU'D be a perfect candidate to be a tech official in Div2 Since you clearly understand the wear patterns of rubber. So tell us then, if they cant be sharp, how exactly should they look. I dont want to be DQ'd because my tires are not rounded off enough! But OBVIOUSLY you know EXACTLY what an unaltered tire should look like. So, send us some pics, so we know.

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Wauseon

11-20-2006 15:18:30

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Gary Baker, 11-20-2006 14:24:36

Come to Wauseon on Friday and see how top cuts in DivII takes the fussin' out of the tire rule. Most are they cut or aren't they cut calls are subjective at best. All tires wear differently, I dont want to be the one to make the call.

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SMP

11-20-2006 08:22:45

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Warren Townsend, 11-20-2006 05:30:48

Your right , the only way to stop the problem is to allow top-cut tires, any cutting on front of lug is a DQ, 3 mph, 18 in drawbar, that would take care of div. 2, now div. 1 would be stock tractors only , lots of luck finding one.

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DSK

11-19-2006 16:39:01

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

Maybe we should give Jim a chance to tell his side of the story. If they are the "sharpest set of 30 degree tires you've seen",I cannot believe he would try to get away with running them if he knew they were illegal at this particular pull in the first place. If he did know this going in, then yes, this is a clear case of not competing by the rules and hoping not to get caught,i.e. cheating.

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Tim Johnson AC

11-18-2006 19:32:20

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:31:06

This was his Div 2 M----not the one he pulls in cut classes. Makes you wonder what he's done to his other tractor to sasy he "won"? Very disappointing!

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SMP.

11-18-2006 20:03:52

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-18-2006 19:32:20

Jim is a top notch guy, in div 2 sometimes top cut's are ok sometimes not, if you win to much people start crying.

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Tim Johnson AC

11-19-2006 04:06:24

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to SMP., 11-18-2006 20:03:52

JIM KNOWS THE RULES-HE IS ON THE BOARD. HE HAS KNOWN ALL ALONG HE WAS RUNNING THE WRONG TIRES AND FINALLY GOT CALLED ON IT. I THINK IT IS GREAT. SO MANY PEOPLE KNEW HE WASA CHEATING, BUT HE TRIES TO BE EVERYONES BUDDY--WELL THE BUDDY SYSTEM FINALLY QUIT

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RCP

11-19-2006 06:04:39

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Tim Johnson AC, 11-19-2006 04:06:24

I do not know these people, but we do pull NATPA Div 2, and it is obviuos that most of the Div 2 tractors are running top cut or modififed tires. As always the problem is defining what is legal, what is not legal and enforcing it. I would not want to be the guy that had to walk down the line of tractors and determine who to DQ.

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Henry K.

11-19-2006 06:20:42

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to RCP, 11-19-2006 06:04:39

Went your caught cheating, you're branded as a cheater. Hard mark to try to try and erase from your character, follows you everywhere. Long way for a Michigan puller to get DQ'd. And also a NATPA trustee?

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B-maniac

11-19-2006 14:29:15

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to Henry K., 11-19-2006 06:20:42

You would think these guys ( and I use the term loosely) were pulling for $20,000 the way they reduce their mentality to less than 8yr old levels to win a few peanuts and a $10 trophy.The male egoe must really be as fragile as most women say. And those "guys" have the nerve to poke fun at the show tractor owners. Clean your house up, guys, spectators don't pay the bills and participants will stay home if it keeps going the way it is. Five or six "rule benders" don't make much of a pull. That's what you will have if you don't clean it up.

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Oh, this is Funny!!!

11-22-2006 12:32:53

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Re: Jim Benjamin--DQ'd in reply to B-maniac, 11-19-2006 14:29:15

I've seen guys who got throwed out for cut tires and then get mad about it. They were obviously cut and even a fellow who use to own them said they were cut, that is why he got rid of them. Still the boys got mad about it. When you put 30ft. on another uncut tire, your tires aren't uncut. period.

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