TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

NATPA Engine Rule Question

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Crusty Beater

11-03-2006 04:13:11

Report to Moderator

I have a question about this rule in Div 3 and 4:

13. No increased height in any tractors (ie: deck plates, shims, girdles) except for stock gasket.

My tractor is not stroked and only bored .060 over, but my factory replacement block is slightly taller than the original. It bolts on with no modification, deck plate, shim, or girdle and uses only a stock gasket. Is this ok?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Captainhookerus

11-03-2006 15:14:20

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-03-2006 04:13:11

This is one place NATPA rules save you from yourself. The 340 engine came out in the GTC tractor on LPG, a good U on LPG made it look like a fool. 4 1/4 bore 10B2800 cylinder blocks are 2 inches taller than the 10A149. This engine also had a 6 inch stroke. This was never a replacement engine for any U farm tractor.
What you want is a later crankcase that has a flange mount starter instead of those miserable set screw mounted inertial engaged SOB's.
Is this is your intent or are you reading serial number books and playing what if games?
Ken

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-04-2006 14:25:11

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Captainhookerus, 11-03-2006 15:14:20

We are running the 340B-4 crankcase. I replaced the 4.25 10B2800 tall blocks with 4.625. Yes, that's right regarding the GTC. This was also used in a U Military tractor standard from the factory, but not "replacement" so to speak. Several U Industrials escaped with 340B-4, but only the UMIL and GTC were documented as factory stock with this engine.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

David

11-04-2006 18:13:34

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-04-2006 14:25:11

So in other words, you want to pull with a G or GB engine in a UB and call it stock? I would like to do that too, but most organizations won't allow it. You said it was just .060 over, but a 4.625 is more than .060 over the 4.25 bore a UB has stock. Also the 6" stroke you have isn't stock, it is a full 1" over a stock UB. So you have more than a little over stock UB. A little taller block, two inches taller isn't a little taller. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you are not fooling anybody with your so called "stock" tractor.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-05-2006 07:27:17

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to David, 11-04-2006 18:13:34

Nope, never claimed it was a "stock" tractor nor trying to fool anyone. According to rules as written, I have a legal Div3 tractor. I'm simply trying to prevent hauling to an event and told to pull Div5 based on others' experiences. The rule specified "i.e. no deck plates, shims, or girdles" My engine is 4.685 x 6 and 100 h.p. The block height is identical to factory U-series' Military. Mild next to a normal looking 283 engine running 727 cubes haha.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

David

11-04-2006 09:49:32

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-05-2006 07:27:17

You need to check the rules again.

13. No increased height in any tractors (ie: deck plates, shims, girdles) except for stock gasket.

The 340 block height (which you don't have, you have the G, GB blocks) are 2" taller than the STOCK UB blocks making them NOT legal. The 340 was NEVER a factory replacement engine for a U or UB.

Unless you are planning on stroking the engine with a huge stroke, you would be better off finding a set of SHORT 4.625" blocks and using your crank with an offset grind and aftermarket pistons for div. 3.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-06-2006 06:51:17

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to David, 11-04-2006 09:49:32

That is probably what I will end up building in my 1946 UTU with a Welters 4.81 piston. Good engine from what I've seen in DIV3.

But yet, am I really increasing the deck height if the UMIL, a variety of the U-series tractor, was FACTORY EQUIPPED with the tall blocks?

SERIAL # PREFIX:
056 340B-4 Gasoline Engine for UMIL Tractor
057 UMIL Tractor w/340B-4 Engine

SERIAL #:
1953 340B-4 05600001 - 05600042 1953 UMIL 05700001 - 05700042

What about a Deere power block? Exception to the rule?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

David

11-06-2006 07:57:43

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-06-2006 06:51:17

I totally agree with you on the John Deere aftermarket blocks. The rules should be equal for all makes, no exceptions.

Your explaination of the UMIL still won't hold water. That was a limit production, non agricultural tractor that has no association with a UB. Just because it is in the U series, it had more in common with the G tractors. Again, the 340 was never a factory option or replacement engine in a UB. Till the rules are changed to stop holding the MM's back from using factory parts when certain makes can run performance purpose built, non factory replacement parts, that is how it will be on the tall blocks on an U derivative. Sorry.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-06-2006 08:31:47

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to David, 11-06-2006 07:57:43

Thanks for the clarification Dave. Wasn't trying to be argumentative, just trying to see NATPA justification. It's a good organization. Henederson Power makes a 5.75 bore from a stock U block and it still runs water through it. To this day, I still don't believe anyone can match the cubes of MM. The dealers had fun with that! As far as Deere. It seems they get a favorable shake. It's hard for a Deere to compete. They require some extra effort and money, then I see a few do really well.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

call RICH

11-03-2006 05:17:04

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-03-2006 04:13:11

Call Richard Wenzig, head of the tech for the NATPA, see if you get an answer without him having to check with someone else before answering!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Gary Baker

11-03-2006 05:14:11

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-03-2006 04:13:11

If it's a direct factory replacement block it will be the same deck height. You are not giving me enough information. What model tractor are you talking about? Gary

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

?wonderingg?

11-04-2006 12:19:35

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Gary Baker, 11-03-2006 05:14:11

Gary,
The Jerry's block is legal for the G JD in Div 3.
it is longer than stock! How long is allowed?
Does it depend on who it is or where it came from?
Use a tape and measure one, they are longer than an unstyled block, can the same be done with other models?
just wondering where to draw the line, thankyou very much

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-03-2006 06:04:21

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Gary Baker, 11-03-2006 05:14:11

Hello Gary. I am talking about my old M-M UBU with a 340B-4 engine from a UMIL. The block height was different from most model U. The crankcase is identical.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

answer

11-03-2006 13:08:47

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to Crusty Beater, 11-03-2006 06:04:21

div 1-2 NOT LEGAL Div3,4,5 LEGAL--come pull and have fun

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Crusty Beater

11-04-2006 14:26:59

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to answer, 11-03-2006 13:08:47

Thanks, I will!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Barnheater

11-03-2006 19:01:36

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA Engine Rule Question in reply to answer, 11-03-2006 13:08:47

What's the rules on a 403 in a "U"?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy