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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

chad s bendix carb ?

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ES

09-02-2006 16:59:47




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chad carb runs rich a little over idle under a load runs real good any advise thanks




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ChadS

09-04-2006 09:26:01




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to ES, 09-02-2006 16:59:47  
What is it on? Chad



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jhb

09-04-2006 05:53:17




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to ES, 09-02-2006 16:59:47  
Have the same problem. Run a #35 venturi with 450 Farmall carb. Standard rpm of 1600 is all I am allowed. Drilled main jet 2 bit sizes larger. Using a 4 hole discharge nozzle. Drilled just the lowest 1 hole just 1 bit size larger.
Now I cannot lean out the idle and mid range without losing power on full throttle. Full throttle runs about right. I do not know what larger or more holes in the discharge nozzle does for my carburetor. I have 4 hole and 3 hole discharge nozzles. Can anyone explain the importance of the number of holes and size of the lower 2 holes in the discharge nozzle? Thanks in advance.

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ChadS

09-04-2006 09:24:59




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to jhb, 09-04-2006 05:53:17  
Does the carb you have, use the idle screw in the flange VS closer to the bowl below the venturi like the older carbs had? The problem is not in the stem or the jet size, the problem lies in the idle circuit of that particular carb design. For some reason, the develop internal leaks in the idle circuit. Ive seen them have hair line cracks and leak vacuum and fuel above the butterfly. My guess is, on the 450 carb would be that it was running off the main fuel circuit, and it was just lean enough to run at idle, until you incrased the fuel amount thru the metering stem. Thats what happens on both models of carbs, when the idle plugs up, or malfuntions. Junk the 450 throttle body and get one off the older series, M-SM carbs have a better idle circuit, lower in the carb throat where vaccum may be easier accesed to the circuit. As far as the metering stem, most of the rebuild kits carry a 6 hole stem, 3 on a side all the way thru the stem, some of the larger 6 cyl stems had 8 holes, but cant be used without modifications to the M-SM carb bowl. Depending on what you have done to the engine, if its under 350 ci, you can feed it just by drilling the bottom holes of the stem, and increasing the main jet size. Main objective is to keep the main jet larger than the stem,, the stem can flow more fuel than the main jet due to be able to store it past the main jet inside the stem,, so, enlarging the jet, using the adjustment screw to limit how much fuel enters the metering stem. As long as you dont over drill the stem holes, you wont lose your fine tune on the adjustment screw. If you do this in the opposite mannor, it leans out the fuel to the stem, and takes alot longer to build and tune. 2 stems and carb bowl designs are avaialble for the M-450, the stock carb bowl, and the 6 cyl carb bowls, which holds a larger metering stem, and bigger idle passages in the bowl. Mainly its deired for the larger stem. it screws into the bowl VS having the brass plug on the bottom, they work good on enhanced engines, as long as the venturi is not too big. You can put alot of fuel in the system with the 6 cyl bowl, with less modification, but if you doont have the engine to need that much, its not needed on fairly stock engines. Hope this helps, ChadS

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jhb

09-04-2006 10:30:03




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to ChadS, 09-04-2006 09:24:59  
Chad, I forgot to tell you I have a stock 450 engine in my Super M with M&W firecrater pistons running at stock 1600 rpm. No stroking or overboring. 4 1/8 pistons with sleeves. The other factor is that the idling air adjusting screw does not seem to make much difference in how the engine runs. All the way out or all the way in seems to be the same. Does that give you another clue? Thanks. Jim

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ChadS

09-04-2006 11:18:57




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to jhb, 09-04-2006 10:30:03  
It sounds as if your too large on the venturi. By making the venturi too large, it drops manifold vacuum enough to affect the carb's circuits. If vacuum is too low, it wont pull as much air, or fuel from the idle circuit, more off the main jet from all the freeflowing air coming across the stem. Here is a good recipe for what you have,,, its exactly the same carb set up I have on my M, and it works great,,,,,

Start by cleaning the throttle body out once more. Every passage has a place to go when you inject compressed air into it to clean it out. The main thing is to trace every passage you clean, does the air come out of every place you pressureize?? If not keep trying, or boil the carb out to remove the debris. You should be able to place the tip of your finger, over the passage in the throat of the carb, (right beside the butterfly it looks like a slit in the side of the throat) blow air thru and get a strong stream of air out it. If it doesnt, that particular area of the idle passages is plugged. Either way you look at it, it has to be made sure that the passages are clear. If its clear, you might try to see if it works, but in my opinion, the venturi is still to large for what you have. Using a 6 cyl bowl, I did enlarge the jet size 5 sizes, since it had the big stem in it already, I only opened up the bottom 2 holes 2 sizes smaller than the new jet size. I use a #27 venturi, with the M throttle body. I use 89 octane pump gas in it, it does not need any thing more exotic than the 89octane. I have right at 165 psi of cranking pressure in my M, with a 8060 head. I recommend trying this setup with what you have,,, it will make some real good low end power, and still big enough to run up to 2100rpm. Check those passages really good, put in a new idle screw, that does help,,, Im assuminmg it has the large brass idle screw, VS the smaller 6cyl type adjuster right? Some MTA's had the new style idle circuits, thats about the time they swapped into the new carb designs,,, ChadS

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jbh

09-04-2006 10:13:19




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to ChadS, 09-04-2006 09:24:59  
Chad, I have a 756, 806 & M bowl. The throttle body is a Super M. I have the 756 (#33), 806 ($35) and an unmarked Super M venturi. The main thing I notice about the 756 and 806 lower bowls are the larger idling jets. I am using the smaller Super M idling jet, the larger #35 venturi, a 4 hole discharge nozzle and a Super M lower bowl. Since drilling the horizontal main jet I now have adjustment. Before I could run the main jet set screw almost all the way out. What do you think? Thanks. JIm

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ChadS

09-04-2006 11:28:10




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 Re: chad s bendix carb ? in reply to jbh, 09-04-2006 10:13:19  
Keep the large 6 cyl idle tube, you will find that it may restrict what your trying to open up. Sure, they all can use just a tad bigger idle stem,,, the 6 cyl bowl swap is bout as good as it may get. They do help smooth out the idle by letting more air and fuel in the circuit VS stock M style bowls. Mix matching parts dont help, when its another place you may need to focus on. I do honestly belive your venturi is way too big. Your not running 350+ci, or turning 2000+rpms, your losing all your low end power from the bigger venturi, and idle quality suffers as well. On the dyno, the 27 made the best power and low end torque, the 29 helped throttle responce, 540 HP stayed, but lost 7 hp in the low end, the 33 lost 2 hp at 540, and lost 10 hp on the low side, and the numbers kept dropping and dropping as it got bigger. Plenty of carburator, not enough engine to need it is how I would put it. But, thats on my dyno, with my own tractor,, Id betcha the results would be the same if you checked it out too. Chad

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