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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

TA's

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Dave in MN

02-08-2006 16:51:40




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Why is it against the rules at some pulls to shift the TA during the hook?

We have guys changing gears, changing tire/rim sizes, swaping rear ends and then it's against the rules to shift my factory installed TA during the pull?????




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Jason In IL.

02-10-2006 10:19:16




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
I think it is stupid to not be allowed to run what the tractor came with. I pull an 880 oliver with no powerbooster shift and I don"t care if another tractor can shift. Most of the time the driver shifts at the wrong time anyway. I pull against a lot of red ones that can shift, and 9 times out of 10 I will beat them.



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TONY JOHNSON

02-09-2006 19:16:13




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
you hit the nail on the head dave.



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720Deere

02-09-2006 18:45:17




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
How many times have you seen the T/A on an overpowered Farmall grenade when engaged during a hard pull? Safety is the number one concern. Many clubs also have safety concerns about use of a t/a without wheelie bars.

As stated previously, even as a JD guy, I don't see any advantage offered to Farmall by allowing the t/a to be used. At least 8 out 10 operators that I have seen wait far too long to pull the whoop-t-doo lever and end up spinning out right there from the sudden addition of torque. In other words, I don't fear the t/a and don't see that as a valid excuse to not allow it's use.

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minnesota red

02-10-2006 12:45:46




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 Re: TA's in reply to 720Deere, 02-09-2006 18:45:17  
name 1 time that has ever happened.
if that is a fact and they want to keep everything safe shouldn't the putt-putts have to shield the clutch and flywheel that hang out in the open?
i guess not,it is better to worry about a TA that is behind 2 inches of cast.



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720Deere

02-10-2006 16:40:16




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 Re: TA's in reply to minnesota red, 02-10-2006 12:45:46  
Again as I had to state below, I gave reasons why people make those rules, not my opinion. Don't shoot the messenger! Can anybody here read?! At the the end of the above post I stated that I have no problem with t/a use.

POINT BLANK, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH USING THE T/A OR OTHER SHIFTING DEVICE!!!! THE QUESTION WAS ASKED AND I GAVE POSSIBLE REASONS THAT I HAVE HEARD BEFORE.



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I'll tell ya what

02-09-2006 19:36:01




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 Re: TA's in reply to 720Deere, 02-09-2006 18:45:17  
It sounds like you've had your little a$$ kicked by some IHs, didn't ya that is why you are crying. I have put 1000 hp to a stock heavy duty TA and I will be damned if mine ever blew or if I have ever seen anyone elses blow. You probably seen someones cast flywheel blow not a TA. Thanks and we'll see ya soon. I will stop out saturday night to talk to ya about the TA issue



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720Deere

02-10-2006 07:47:22




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 Re: TA's in reply to I'll tell ya what, 02-09-2006 19:36:01  
Reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits is it? My post said that I have nothing against the use of the t/a. I merely stated the reasons that some clubs don't allow their use and then went on to say that I don't see these issues being a valid excuse to not allow them. Grow up!



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G/MAN

02-09-2006 15:54:55




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
I guess I'm not convinced that being able to shift the T-A is such an advantage. I've seen plenty of IH tractors in "farm" classes start powering out, shift the T-A and promptly stop and spin out.



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ShawnM

02-09-2006 19:02:06




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 Re: TA's in reply to G/MAN, 02-09-2006 15:54:55  
If used correctly T/A"s can provide an advantage, especially if you are pulling in a higher gear. The trick is shifting before you lose your momentum, if you wait until it"s falling on its face then it does hurt you. I can tell you going from experience on my 766 from 6th high to 6th low on the end of a good hard track can pretty easy get you ten extra feet. And ten extra feet can make all the difference.

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G/MAN

02-11-2006 06:55:41




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 Re: TA's in reply to ShawnM, 02-09-2006 19:02:06  
6th high to 6th low? I assume that by "6th" you mean high-2, correct? What kind of performance do you get out of your 766 and what classes do you pull? My uncle has one that pretty much lives on a C-IH 1350 grinder-mixer, and it's a running old SOB. We've kicked around the idea of pulling it, just to see what it will do.



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ShawnM

02-11-2006 19:21:40




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 Re: TA's in reply to G/MAN, 02-11-2006 06:55:41  
By the way, I pull it in the ten thousand, eleven thousand, and twelve thousand pound classes. Usually, it's the smallest factory rated tractor in the classes and trust me, people notice that. I get a lot of smirks and pointed fingers when I drive past the cockier pullers on their 4320's and 1066's and what not in the pits. But their is also no better feeling when you get a good hook and put 25 feet on them! As for your 766, if you're just want to play around with pulling like we do, they are a good tractor to do so with. I would find you a turbo manifold for your D360 and put a TO4 or something equivalent on it. Ours is only pushing in the neighborhood of 15-18 pounds of boost, but you will be amazed how much that 766 will wake up with that. I say take her to a dirt track and have fun. And don't worry, it will hold it's own.

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ShawnM

02-11-2006 19:05:58




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 Re: TA's in reply to G/MAN, 02-11-2006 06:55:41  
Yes, by 6th im high 2nd. We refer to high 1,2,3, and 4 as 5,6,7, and 8 so there is no confusion when you talk about gear selection and T.A. placement (i.e. 2nd on the high side with the T.A. forward is 6th high). The only thing we have done to it is slip an M.W. turbo kit onto it. Hell, last year we unhooked it from the JD 467 baler and took the loader brackets off it about 3 hours before the first pull started that night. We farm with it turning around 110-115 h.p. because that's more than enough for what it does. As for pulling, it will pretty easy turn 150 to 160 horse (and without a doubt even a little more, I don't want to twist it too hard) with just a quick tweak on the pump. And since I can hear everybody calling me a liar already, to anyone who does not believe me, I will provide directions and date of the first pull of this summer. To top it off, I will buy that man a beer to drink, while we hook it to the dyno. Regards, Shawn Mebruer

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Steve Scott

03-02-2006 19:41:14




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 Re: TA's in reply to ShawnM, 02-11-2006 19:05:58  
Hey Shawn. I'd like to watch your 7 pull. I used to have one and you're not kidding; they wake up pretty good. Let me know when and where. If you're close to Linn, I'm only a couple of hours away.



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ChadS

02-10-2006 06:11:38




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 Re: TA's in reply to ShawnM, 02-09-2006 19:02:06  
Ive seen the famous TA spin out so many times it will drive you crazy!! I say, if you got a big enough motor,, run it back in low till you get where your going, then throw it in high to get more ground speed if there is a soft spot at the end of the track, or where eveyone else is spinnin out,, That sudden speed increase would either kill the engine, or go farther in this situation. To me, even as a IH man, if the TA is used correctly, it is an advantage beyond its technology. What do you think bout that idea on shifting it from low to high?? backwards to popular use? Chad

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massey333

02-10-2006 11:45:26




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 Re: TA's in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2006 06:11:38  
Chads you are right most of the time the TA is a losing deal,but there are some people out there who can walk a TA I have seen some clubs who allow TA shifting where the persons hand never left the lever and shifted 6 to 10 times in a 200 ft.pull relied on the tach for the pull.In a few classes IH's are all that are in those classes.But like Brutis said LET a Caseomatic come in(if the yr.allows) and the Red boys cry the most.

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ChadS

02-10-2006 12:49:18




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 Re: TA's in reply to massey333, 02-10-2006 11:45:26  
Years back, we had a 830 caseomatic,, I think it was a 830,, was a long time ago,, I remember seeing that tractor hook back to back with a 1066IH, hitch to hitch,,, guess what? the CASE pulled it backwards!! never spun a tire either. ChadS



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ShawnM

02-10-2006 06:48:11




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 Re: TA's in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2006 06:11:38  
Chad, every year I pull at a local fair that has a notorious soft spot at around the 150 ft. mark.
Every year they try to fix it, every year by the 7500 open its back to it's old ways. I pull the 766 in the 10, 11, and 12000. In the 10 and 11 I pull in 6th, in the 12 in 5th. I usually wind her up to around 2600 rpms and take off in the low side of 6th. Once I get the sled started I twist her open. The key to the TA is overall feel for your tractor. As soon as the 766 gets rolling, I throw her into high. In the 10000, I usually don't shift back down because I usually have plenty of power, and momentum is the key to success once you hit that soft spot. A few tractors try to creep through it every year and none of them ever make it. Now in the 11000, I usually do downshift from 6th hi to 6th lo at the end of the run. Once again, it's all feel. Sometimes I shift, sometimes I don't. I watch the tach and shift if and when it hits around 2300 rpms, give or take. Downshifting depends on the track, sled, and tractor. Some sleds hit you really hard at around the 225 mark or so, in which the load hits too fast for shifting to do you any good. Track consistency and what gear you pull in makes a difference too. If you hit a hole in the track, you can shift all you want and do no good. Each tractor is different, and you gotta know your tractor's tendencies before you can effectively shift on the go.

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ChadS

02-10-2006 12:52:16




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 Re: TA's in reply to ShawnM, 02-10-2006 06:48:11  
I agree with ya! The reason I mentioned that was sometimes at the end of a pull in the open class with my H,, Id open it up and let it rip. Bout 40% of the time it would take off again and go farther,, sometimes the track spun me out,, Chad



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TONY JOHNSON

02-10-2006 06:46:48




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 Re: TA's in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2006 06:11:38  
ive seen it done, about 25% of the time it works. my ol man does it when the ocation arises on our 1206. ive never had much luck with it though. but i love my torque and usually add at least 10-15 feet on my pull. had her hook perfect and torqued at 300-305 feet....the sled man stopped me with his brakes at 406 feet. which pissed me off because That's dangerous in itself. the frt was already 2 ft off the ground, and rared up when he did. a red flag would have been alittle better i thought.

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are you sure

02-10-2006 09:59:39




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 Re: TA's in reply to TONY JOHNSON, 02-10-2006 06:46:48  
are you sure the weight box was in gear



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TONY JOHNSON

02-10-2006 10:29:15




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 Re: TA's in reply to are you sure, 02-10-2006 09:59:39  
yes the weight box was in gear ha ha



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superih

02-09-2006 14:03:01




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
Because nobody else has it. It is an unfair advantage in tractor pulling because you are not comparing apples to apples. In antique pulling the IH would probably dominate, thus why the SMTA was awsume to plow with over any other brand, in a field full of clay knobs.



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Brutus

02-10-2006 10:52:58




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 Re: TA's in reply to superih, 02-09-2006 14:03:01  
The 800 or 830 Case had shift on the go, hyd. actuated even! in a tractor far more durable than a 560. And on the subject of IH's dominating antique pulls they have a serious inheritant flaw, they are poorly balanced in the stock form which of course can be (and is) overcame with movable weight. We have had a 460 and 560 and found them to be the clumbiest, poorest built and all around most miserable tractor I have had the dis pleasure to drive, and I have driven them all!

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G/MAN

02-09-2006 15:53:34




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 Re: TA's in reply to superih, 02-09-2006 14:03:01  
Is that a fact? Didn't several other manufacturers also offer shift-on-the-go capability during the same time period???



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superih

02-10-2006 10:42:35




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 Re: TA's in reply to G/MAN, 02-09-2006 15:53:34  
Why don't you fill me in! 1958 and older.

It is possible that IH did make at least ONE dominant tractor while performing at least ONE farming operation.

I simply made a statement from the perspective of a tractor pulling judge and added the thought pattern behind it.

And I do know from experience of the many plowdays that my family has hosted that a tractor with a TA is the most effiecient in a field of varying soil types. By the way we have tractors of all colors there and many IH, AC, and JD diehards and none of us say stupid BS just to start an argument on who/what is better or right.

I guess if we all switched to JD how would you start a BS session?

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G/MAN

02-11-2006 06:57:50




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 Re: TA's in reply to superih, 02-10-2006 10:42:35  
Did you see one reference to JD in my post? I didn't think so. Whether or not I like JD has nothing to do with the performance of a T-A and whether or not it can be used in a pull, does it? I didn't think so. Sorry, but I was thinking that there were at least a couple other manufacturers that also had a high-low shift during that time period. Do you want to state as fact that there WEREN'T???



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supermpuller

02-09-2006 16:45:56




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 Re: TA's in reply to G/MAN, 02-09-2006 15:53:34  
Hold on Gman thats not a TA on your hot G, thats the hand clutch!



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Dave in MN

02-09-2006 14:59:39




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 Re: TA's in reply to superih, 02-09-2006 14:03:01  
Using the unfair logic... I don't think that the JD's should be allowed to use their low end torque...the Ollies and the orange tractors to use their hi/low shifters (whatever they call them)...the MM's to use their good HP/weight advantags...

I guess it all comes down to this, you can do whatever you want to your tractor as long as you don't beat anybody. If you win, you are obviously cheating.

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Mcred

02-09-2006 05:41:59




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 Re: TA's in reply to Dave in MN, 02-08-2006 16:51:40  
I would also like to know the awnser to that question, is annoying when they wont allow the use of a factory installed equipment.



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Ahab the Arab

02-10-2006 05:12:25




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 Re: TA's in reply to Mcred, 02-09-2006 05:41:59  
Unlike IH most other tractor makers of the 50's put the torque in the engine not on the end of a lever!!! Leave the lever ahead or back.



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minnesota red

02-10-2006 12:50:35




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 Re: TA's in reply to Ahab the Arab, 02-10-2006 05:12:25  
what do you cry about when the 806s pull?
without the TA they make a 4010 look sicker than it already is.



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TONY JOHNSON

02-10-2006 10:32:45




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 Re: TA's in reply to Ahab the Arab, 02-10-2006 05:12:25  
the torque in the 50's was ahead of its time of coarse it took deere till the 4010 to get there head out of there azz. and they still dont run a cross flow head to this day....guess its kind of like the rotor in a combine but they came around on that finally..



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Bencie

02-10-2006 18:15:03




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 Re: TA's in reply to TONY JOHNSON, 02-10-2006 10:32:45  
I believe MM put a torque in a "335" in 1956, but not 100% sure.



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