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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

NATPA rules

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Two Tone

01-23-2006 15:49:11




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Name: Two Tone If this is your regular "handle", you can reserve it for your exclusive use by creating a password below. Set Password: Report Handle Misuse E-Mail: [email protected]
Subject: NATPA rules
Body of Message:
So not to hide anything my name is Jim Norcross, Email [email protected]. I am (was)a member of NATPA. I have four tractors that I pull with, a Cockshutt 30, a CCIL (Canadian COOP) and two 900 series Fords. In 2005 I presented the CCIL to the tech crew at a NATPA pull to see what was needed to be done to enter and pull in div. II NATPA. I made the changes required at some expense an considerable time and showed up at a later NATPA pull ready to go. I traveled several hundred miles and stayed in a hotel to be at the pull.
At Carthage 2006 I tried to present the CCIL for tech and was told the following.
You can't pull that Deutz, no foreign tractors allowed. Does this include Cockshutt's, COOP's Massey's Some Oliver's, Molines and others that had plants in Canada?
You can't pull because that tractor was not tested at Nebraska. Does that mean that all models of all colors that pull have been Nebraska tested?

The NATPA tech said they had no data sheets for my CCIL tractor yet in our conversation in 2005, NATPA gave me the website for data sheets on this tractor by showing me their file containing the web address. I checked and the site is still active with every specification known. It is in the German language, but there are web translators readily available at the click of a mouse. And actually, no translator is needed to understand the RPM, Weight and other specs.
NATPA offered no excuse for changing their 2005 requirements when I showed up in 2006 with the changes they required in 2005--they didn't even look at my tractor. They merely said that they couldn't notify me of their change of mind decision because they didn't know how to contact me. They know how to send me a bill for my dues.
I do not want to come across as a whinner. I just wanted to let my fellow pullers know what could happen to them if they want to pull a competitive tractor against NATPA tractors, regardless of the tractor's origin and regardless of what they tell you one time and are willing to live up to the next time.

Jim
Two Tone

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Cotton Picker

01-25-2006 12:37:55




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
Jim,

I wouldn't even waste my time and fuel driving up to one of there pulls. Some of those natpa boy's are afraid us southern boys may show them how to pull.



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jimmyjoe

01-25-2006 06:05:17




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
Its more of the good ole boy syndrome, i personally saw Richard Wenzigs RPM's after he pulled in Columbia, he was turning just over 2400 and they let he go, Bob Bryan is a a$$hole too, and lets not forget about Delmar and his lovely bride



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Drew

01-25-2006 06:29:59




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to jimmyjoe, 01-25-2006 06:05:17  
A 2 cylinder will tach 2x the actual RPM unless running a LP distrubutor since the dist runs at crank speed and not camshaft speed as is the norm. When you divide that "just over 2400" by 2, is it less than 1227? Would you acutally stand next to, or for that matter, in the same county as a stroker 2 cylinder turing 2k+ rpm??



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Eddie Haskell

01-25-2006 12:28:06




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Drew, 01-25-2006 06:29:59  
Stroked JD's don't have to run 2x the rated rpm's. That engine is a different school of thought from a "normal" 4 & 6 cylinder.

You cannot compare apples to oranges.



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Drew

01-25-2006 15:55:15




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Eddie Haskell, 01-25-2006 12:28:06  
What are you talking about? You lost me.....



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massey333

01-24-2006 10:45:04




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
Two Tone It sounds like you were a victim of the Columbia Tech crew.You can pass all of the techs all year on the circuit until you get to the Championship in Columbia and if you are not a good old boys member,then you are in for major headaches.Been there done that.Why no one calls their bluff is ??. I enjoy pulling with the NATPA and have been treated very well and have done very good and very bad at all the pulls except the treatment at Columbia STINKS. If you cross them you will have a hard time winning anything.I have came out of there with two seconds and been cheated from two firsts by the powers that be.Once by little fat flagman who couldn't hear the speed busser going off for his buddy,(Sled opp.-crowd-etc but not him),second time by losing my Dist.at the end of pull,even tho it had been given on the PA. and said it was longest pull.Had to put 1500 lbs. back on and pull again which I lost by thinking I could find a better spot on track which I didn't. Sour Grapes Yes but if they ever leave Colunbia for the Champonship Pull,I will start with them again. As far as the restricted tractors that is a SORE subject with a lot of people,not just NATPA but ANY CLUB that has that rule.The WD45 and D-17 both plus the Ford 800-900 have more HP (per Neb.test)than a stock M--33-44,-77-88,-U-UB,-DC,-etc. They(WC-WD-WD45s) are than allowed to run D17 or combine engines at a higher RPM ratio against tractors that can't or unable to even reach the stock HP of the ACs. Sorry for the long post but it is something that needs said but will never be addrested or corrected.

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Webpd

01-24-2006 10:41:01




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
Was that there tech official from the Nebraska Mafia and would he of had to pull against ya?Might just answer your question might it



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Heard?

01-24-2006 10:07:31




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
I heard it was not allowed to pull cause it is so ugly! I've never seen it, just what I heard! Being DQ'd for an ugly tractor, that's a first!



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masseypower

01-23-2006 18:41:17




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
If you dont like it quit pulling there and stop cluttering up this board I dont think that is what this forum is set up for it is tractor pulling not for crying about your problems, I dont see anybody on here with a DR PHIL handle



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Excuse Me?

01-24-2006 13:10:09




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to masseypower, 01-23-2006 18:41:17  
If we wanted to hear from an A$$HOLE we would of all just farted.



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moli

01-23-2006 20:10:41




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to masseypower, 01-23-2006 18:41:17  
Masseypower,i aint cryin bout this...i dont watch Dr Phil,Oprah or Jerry Springer..Southpark suits me just fine....Is this who i think it is??If it is , leave your email address or are you live spy FBI today..Masseybater



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wd45power

01-24-2006 15:31:16




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to moli, 01-23-2006 20:10:41  
lay off massypower. he is a cool guy. don't be a hater. your gay and add something because your good at it...:)



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masseypower

01-23-2006 20:46:28




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to moli, 01-23-2006 20:10:41  
You got me good with the masseybater not!!! it shows a persons true iq to get disqualified in a low gear class for not pulling in low gear I wonder why they call it a low gear class so you can pull in second gear and the complain because you were disqualified??



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moli

01-24-2006 07:55:24




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to masseypower, 01-23-2006 20:46:28  
NO....NO ITS A SPEED LIMIT CLASS OF 2.7 MPH..But they wouldnt let me go 2.7 mph because of that factory op xtra lower gear ,there both 1st gear..I could take that extra low gear out(since it a factory op and you had to order it)they would let me pull it in..Alot of pullers cried when i got into the heavy classes and started usin that extra low gear cause they would runoutta power..it did have its purpose in the heavy classes..Dammed if ya do dammed if ya dont...massey..just bustin on ya bout your handle,thought you were someone else..sorry..

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moli

01-23-2006 17:58:45




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
I pulled div 1 with the 2.7mph, 1st gear class... I got DQ because i didnt run in 1st gearlow..Now if its a mph class how am i gonna go that fast if i cant run it in 1st gear high..besides that granny low was a factory op in a cockshutt 30..thats a crock...



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Patches

01-23-2006 17:28:13




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
Jim, We had this discussion at the pull on Saturday, and for the record, you are more than welcome to come and pull with us anytime this summer in Granby. We'd love to have you.

Your not the only one who was turned away, several others had issues with their tractors not teching correctly, but when looking at some of those who did pass tech, well, they were no better than those that failed. I think my biggest question is, Is not Safety more important than some of the other defects? Espically if someone just came to hook and was not going for the points. I think there should be some exception for those who are a "one-time" puller only, they are not running the circuit, they are just wanting to pull in a National event. If they meet the safey criteria, then let them hook, give the place points to the NATPA member who is chasing them. Just my foolish thoughts.

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King Case

01-23-2006 17:12:11




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
I was at the pull and was a worker at this pull and want to thank all who came. I heard about your problem. I brought a tractor to pull div 1 at last years pull. This tractor was bone cold stock as for it is a parade tractor. I went to tech and got some slack about my #s not showing on the cyl head. I kindly explained that they were located under the valve cover. So they grumbled around a min or two. I said that it was the right cyl head for this tractor. Then he said i know i know i pulled one of these for years. So i took the hint that they didnt give a dam if i pulled or not. So they will never get my money agin. As far as their rules they are geared toward certin tractors in my opinion. Take for instance why cant i pull my DC Case in the 4000lb class? Rules say no C or D series below 4500lbs if i can get 400+ cubes why punish me for that. But let a WC with 400+ cubes pull those classes. I say make a new rule no WCs over 4000lbs. But thats not fair they have more than enough power to pull up to 5000lbs up. I also can get my DC to 4000lbs easily so what is fair? Same goes for some other brands black balled in lower weight classes. King Case

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Patches

01-23-2006 17:29:43




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to King Case, 01-23-2006 17:12:11  
King, you feeling better now?



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Sweeper

01-23-2006 17:08:40




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Two Tone, 01-23-2006 15:49:11  
The tractor and driver were both just too pretty for the NATPA boys.



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Gamitch

01-23-2006 18:11:38




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Sweeper, 01-23-2006 17:08:40  
Take the Granby folk up on the invite to pull there. They're great and so is their club. As far as NATPA, it should have been named WCTPA. Their exclusionary rules that cater to the Allis crowd are ridiculous and disgusting. Beats me why anyone that doesn't pull a WC even fools with them. Oops, after looking at the points standing, it might be that no one except WC clones DOES pull with them. gm

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Past NATPA Member

01-24-2006 07:15:30




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Gamitch, 01-23-2006 18:11:38  
Sir, I got to give you credit as you hit the nail right on the head and I could not agree with you more. I quit pulling with NATPA the day I discovered (seven years ago) the president and some of the board took it upon themselves to give the WC / WD / WD45 an RPM advantage over all other brands. Of course the president (MR. Burch) pulled a WC and was getting his a$$ handed to him. The line of bull $hit that NATPA directors pump to the members / public that all rules are voted on by the members for the members is a first class crock of $hit. This RPM advantage was never voted on by the members or even ever addressed at any of the rules meetings before it was changed by the inside controlling click. I know, I was a member and did attend all the rules meetings before this was done. Nice that all the other honest directors that have replaced the previous clicks have not ever took it upon themselves to correct this crooked issue. There is no getting around the truth. Look at there joke of RPM charts and see. I guarantee you will not find any of the rule meeting minutes showing this change was ever done or voted on by the members. I find it real funny that they did address the high RPM IH tractors but did not find the need to address the Allis tractors that get a RPM advantage over all other brands. I guess if the majority pull Allis it never will get addressed either. NATPA = National Allis Chalmers Tractor Pulling Association. Really has a nice ring to it! Couldn't be more true.

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770 puller

01-24-2006 07:55:46




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Past NATPA Member, 01-24-2006 07:15:30  
What are the NATPA rpm rules for WC AC's?
Just curious!
BG



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Gamitch

01-29-2006 10:48:54




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to 770 puller, 01-24-2006 07:55:46  
770 Puller, I'll expound on your question regarding WC RPMs, etc.

33 Massey Harris, 4 cyl. 201 CID. 1950 rpm per NATPA, 1700 (same CID WC came out with)

77 Oliver, 6 cyl, 194 CID 1750 rpm per NATPA, 1750 (less CID than WC came out with and 17% smaller then WC's are allowed)

F-20 Farmall 4 cyl, 221 CID 1200 rpm per NATPA, 1350

(AC D-17 [ WC, WD, WD45,] 4 cyl, 226 CID, 1650 rpm, per NATPA, 1995)

NATPA Div. III rule exerpt: Tractors must have the stock engine, frames, transmission, rear end and axle housings or manufacturer�s replacement. AC - WC/WD/WD45 can use D-17 engine.

The above are excluded from Div III 3500# and 3750# classes excepting the WC, WD, and WD45. Another glaring example is the 88 Oliver that came out with 231 CID and is limited to 4500#s and up. I couldn't easily locate the 10-20-McCormack and JD's are an entirely different animal but I think you get my drift, and NATPA's "aroma." The following paragraph is right from NATPA's rules: It includes the phrase, "like sized tractors" which appears to mean if the AC rules dudes LIKE a tractor, it pulls light, if it may beat the AC boys, you're screwed. Most organizations that I know of, and I pull with several, do not use rules to help or discriminate to benefit the "wheels." These guys take the cake.

14. OL 66,Farmall H, AC WC, Ford 800, Cockshut 30and above and like size tractors are not allowed in classes below 3500#. Massey 33, Oliver 77, JD-A 1939, McCormick 10-20, F-20 and down and like size tractors are not allowed in classes below 4000#. Oliver 88, Farmall M, Massey 44, MM-U, JD-G, Case-C/D, JD-A 1940 and up and like size tractors are not allowed in classes below 4500#. Massey 55, IH W-9, IH WK-40, Case LA, Case 600, Moline GB, Moline GBD, Oliver 99 and all like size tractors are not allowed below 5500#.

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jd b puller

01-25-2006 11:03:10




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to 770 puller, 01-24-2006 07:55:46  
770 puller, I think the RPM rule they are talking about is letting the WD/WC/WD-45 use the D-17 engine AND the D-17 RPM's. I'd guess the 11' from the center of the rear tires was aimed at the AC's as well.

Tractor - RPM A - 1150 B, C, CA - 1850 U - 1200 WC, WD, WD45- 1720 WD45 Dsl - 1975 D-17 -1995



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parrothead

01-24-2006 06:13:23




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to Gamitch, 01-23-2006 18:11:38  
How can I get info on the Granby pulls / rules? I'm not too far away from there.



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Patches

01-24-2006 10:47:00




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 Re: NATPA rules in reply to parrothead, 01-24-2006 06:13:23  
Just send me an e-mail with your address and I will send you our pull dates and rules.



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