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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

nead help from some motor builders

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champspa

10-02-2005 13:45:04




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put a thinner gasket in and the compression went to 225 up 15 from 210, just like some of you said it would . it dosn't pull as well as it did won't lug just dies real fast , use to lug right down . anyone what do you think ? go back to 210 . performs well. tried higher octane fuel and it helped but still didn't do as well as before. thanks in advance .




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moli

10-03-2005 16:44:33




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
If you put a thinner gasket into it you actully closed up your valve adjustments,maybe to the point that there staying open a little..How thick was your new gasket??



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champspa

10-04-2005 13:15:19




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to moli, 10-03-2005 16:44:33  
when you change the head gasket you have to put the rocker arms back on then reset the valve lash. I want to thank everyone for their input I have gained a lot of knowledge from every one who replied to my questions , thanks again



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REDEYE

10-02-2005 19:20:35




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
My thoughts are that you have too much timing and or a poor spark. You said that you tried running a higher octane fuel and that it helped. A higher octane fuel burns slower meaning the peak pressure will be seen by the piston later in the cycle. So you effectively retarted your timing by increasing the octane#. I was also thinking about what 44puller was saying about how more stroke helped. This made me crunch some numbers and to make a long story short going from a 5.25 to a 6.25 stroke (arbitruary numbers i chose) the timing is retarted about 2.11 degrees as the pistons sees it. 25 degrees on the light at 5.25 does not equal 25 on the light at 6.25. Personally, I would not go back and loose some compression before I tried to dial it in as is. Some other stuff you may want to consider:
You need a really good spark at higher compression, The plug does not like to arc as the dieletric constant increases at higher pressures for some reason that i dont really remember, I would suggest a hot coil and a 6A box.
Check your plugs, and fiddle with the gap. this can help the arc in higher compression. i want to say to shorten the gap .005, but im not positive which way to go.
You can also fiddle with the intake valve lash to adjust cylinder pressures. take it up and down and see what happens. I gained 10psi by doing this.
If you have access to a dyno get on it. Everythign I thought I knew and a lot of the stuff people told me turned out to be a bunch of BS on the dyno.
Fiddle with the timing. total advance as well as mechanical advance. put it on the dyno and set the timing to the most power at several rpm"s say 200 apart. take these numbers and put them in excell to calcualtae the advance needed. play with the springs and weights in the distributor to get this advance or send it off to someone that does it.

Hope this helps some

-REDEYE

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champspa

10-03-2005 13:08:24




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to REDEYE, 10-02-2005 19:20:35  
I'll try some of the things you suggest, my bore and stroke are stock horse power about 75 had great low end before I went up with the comp. from 210 to 225 . got .030 gap with a petronix ignition



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Bryce

10-02-2005 16:10:11




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
I took an oliver from 300 to 240,lugging improved dramatically.Just my 2 cents worth.Good luck.



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Lynard

10-02-2005 15:30:29




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
champspa Check to see you don't have a vacuum leak or the timing did't get changed. Higher compression usually needs less timing. I don't think raising the compression 15 lbs would make it lug very much less. Lynn



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REDEYE

10-02-2005 15:07:37




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
Did you adjust your timing at all after you swapped to the thinner gasket? Mechanical advance as well as total advance?



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champspa

10-02-2005 15:39:58




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to REDEYE, 10-02-2005 15:07:37  
didn't adjust the timing at all it's set at 25 degrees at high idle , idles about 475 at 1 or 2 degrees pulls a lot of vacumn it sweats the intake real good



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champspa

10-02-2005 15:31:25




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to REDEYE, 10-02-2005 15:07:37  
didn't touch the timing or carb. the plugs are light brown to white. but it does fall on it's face fast, as not to be a smartass says. that's what I was asking whether or not to go back. didn't he read it?



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ChadS

10-04-2005 11:51:48




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 15:31:25  
Sounds to me like its running out of fuel. It will fall on its nose like you described if its lean. You can watch the dyno and it mite be very strong at first, then a few seconds later it will drop HP off at 540 and below? Your getting close to being about as good as it will get for compression for that cubic inch to make as much power as you are going to get or expect. 75 hp out of that engine is pretty good,, I could belive 80 on a good day,,, You have changed the engine so much in that 15psi of compression boost, that your former settings are no longer good for that old set up. 15psi is quite a compression increase in one of these engines, that could be another 5hp if you feed the fuel. Another point, is that when the compression is 200+psi, you will need to start looking for a bigger intake and venturi, the air speed in your engine is so high, and the vacuum pressure is so high, that its starving for air and fuel, more air than fuel,, but, you may have a set up that is large enough to feed, and just need to adjust the load screw, and bump the timing a bit to get the most out of your changes. The big intake helps, and the #35 venturi compliments,,, but if your plugs are white or lite brown,, you can back the main load adjustment screw out, all the way, and still not make it smoke, I say under a load this time,,, you need to go bigger on the jet, and the metering stem. if you can get the fuel, make it run rich,, and see no HP improvemnets, you need more air. Work on dropping the vacuum pressure in the manifold, bigger venturi,, or a larger intake,,, I recomend the Vinson replacement, they are bigger casted and better port design, and costs about the same as a new one,,,LP manifold if you can find a good one cheap, or what ever you wanna spend on. More fuel, more air, need to have a dark brown spark plug color under a load. Just my 2 cents. How thick is the gasket?

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champspa

10-04-2005 13:23:12




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to ChadS, 10-04-2005 11:51:48  
the gasket is .032 thick composit with fire rings and it's great . I did find some restriction in my fuel line , that I think some one may have helped me with , it was five littel pieces of metal about .187 in diameter. took them out yesterday , replace fuel filter and seems to have cured the fall on face syndrome. again let me say thanks for everyone's help , your great.



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ChadS

10-04-2005 16:40:56




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-04-2005 13:23:12  
One more thing,,,, retorque the head gasket after its warmed up good. it may be higher in compression yet! Double check it all,,,, watch the spark plugs for color, compression tests on all the cyls,,, make sure they are up to snuff, and pretty close across the board. Good luck. Chad



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champspa

10-05-2005 14:22:07




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to ChadS, 10-04-2005 16:40:56  
did the retorque yesterday and reset the valves,and checked the timing . ran strong. thanks Chad



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ChadS

10-05-2005 14:36:59




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-05-2005 14:22:07  
How much did you pick up in hp? email me if you dont want to post it. Chad



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champspa

10-07-2005 14:15:37




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to ChadS, 10-05-2005 14:36:59  
havn't been to the dyno yet , it will be a while ,but it's stronger.



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44puller

10-02-2005 13:54:50




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
I've built several high compression engines and it seems like the higher the compression the faster they'll fall on there face unless you put a stroke in them.



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G/MAN

10-02-2005 13:53:04




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to champspa, 10-02-2005 13:45:04  
Not to sound like a smart@$$, but if you're not happy with the change and it doesn't perform as well as it did, the solution would seem to be putting it back where it was.



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Cody

10-02-2005 17:48:44




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 Re: nead help from some motor builders in reply to G/MAN, 10-02-2005 13:53:04  
Loosen your valve lash up about 5 thousanths, it will loose little top end, but it will gain it back on the bottom. Higher comp., requires more timming. The increased cylinder pressure will require a little more lead time on the spark. I would look for more power if I were choking.



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