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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Tractor weight vs. pulling ability

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Glenn F.

08-24-2005 20:40:18




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Do not get me wrong...I am not trying to strike up controversy or cut on any brand of tractor. But, much as I have always liked them, is it possible for a WD or 45 Allis to hold up to/pull with an M or DC Case? Those old Allis' are pretty tough old tractors as evidenced by there longevity, but how can they hold up when they are made so much lighter in all areas, not to mention the 28 or 30 inch rear wheels. As I started out by saying I am NOT bashing Allis Chalmers as I like them very much. We had a WC for many years which is probably not Allis' handiest tractor. It was a very nice tractor. We filled many silos with it on the blower. It always came back for more! Comments? Glenn F.

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AO

08-25-2005 04:30:07




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Glenn F., 08-24-2005 20:40:18  
Heavy don't equal strong every time! You said the magic word "tough". I pull a WD in 3700, 4200 classes,a pulling buddy has a WD45 and pulls in 4700, 5200 along with M's and Olivers and others. You can outfit a AC with 38's to be on equal footing. They do "always come back for more".



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G/MAN

08-25-2005 07:43:50




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to AO, 08-25-2005 04:30:07  
Just an honest question, but why don't they pull heavier classes? Why stop at 5200, when other tractors with similar horsepower are going to 6000 and more?



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Jeff Oliver

08-26-2005 17:37:46




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 07:43:50  
I think I know why, Guy who pulls with us has a WD and by the time he gets into the 5000 he is tired of hanging all of those weights!!!!Can get it in 3250 if they have one and has 38's on it. I have an Oliver 88 and he throwed a whooping on me last week with the WD. hehe but I had just started to add weight and he got tired :)



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Yeoman

08-25-2005 09:05:09




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 07:43:50  
G/MAN:

Legitimate question; possible answer. Like the farmalls, the ACs never had the decent low gears found in the JD and Ollies. Thus when they are jumped up to 38" rubber from 28" they "lose", at least one, maybe one and a half, gear speeds leaving them short for the heavier classes. In the upper divisions IV and V there is one out here in upstate NY that does quite well with "only" 383"3. best, Phil

PS: Please don't think I am trying to bash any color; I like all of the above and some others. This is how it looks from my keyboard.

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TheOldMan

09-02-2005 23:25:11




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Yeoman, 08-25-2005 09:05:09  
I have one H and two SuperM's that have .7 and 1.3 mph low gears in them from the factory. How much lower do you want to go?

TheOldMan



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G/MAN

08-25-2005 10:32:39




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Yeoman, 08-25-2005 09:05:09  
That must be it. Just not low enough cogs in the tranny. That's probably why they eventually went to using a "powershift" two-speed unit too, just like IH's torque substitute.



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supermpuller

08-25-2005 09:40:12




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Yeoman, 08-25-2005 09:05:09  
There are IH 450 and MTA's pulling up to 8500lbs low with TA back they don't run out of power.



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Yeoman

08-26-2005 06:15:09




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 09:40:12  
G/MAN:

I am surprised you gave a freebie on this one. First gear with the torque BACK, as stated, is the cellar, low hole; about 1.6 MPH. How much tractor do you need to spin out at that speed. We have a really great pull up in New Hope NY every summer. New Hope is downtown nowhere in Cental NY; a gorgeous place. The division one tractors, right out of the field, are all over the place. BTW last year a guy with a LATE B picked his way down the track, in first gear, and really put a hurting on a bunch of IH and Ollies, I think it was in the 6K. The performance really made people notice!

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G/MAN

08-25-2005 10:31:28




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 09:40:12  
Yeah, and they have that nice 16 mph high gear that is absolutely worthless for road transporting anything but the tractor alone and maybe a small wagonload of donut holes.



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Yeoman

08-25-2005 11:29:54




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 10:31:28  
G/MAN:

Come on. That IH road race gear is nice if you need to cool off and don't have a motorsickle to ride. I grew up with the red tractors. Pa bought the first MD shipped into the NE USA during the war. I bought the first Johnny popper to the farm, and Pa introduced an orange WD to the place. Each had features the others should have; and each factory furnished miseries that made you wonder about engineering.

Pa always claimed that Cyrus built the best tractor ever built, but it was too bad he forgot to put a couple of low gears in 'em. Our 720D dir elec had good 15.5 rice and canes on it. Pa loved what it would do in the field; and regularly fumed about the )*($#@^&*&) hand clutch; it was kinda like working with Donald Duck at times! All were oustanding machines, with limitations.

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Former deere owner

08-25-2005 11:05:35




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 10:31:28  
Wellat least they CAN pull the wagon and donut holes up ahilleven. Which is considerably more than I can say for any 2 cylinder Deere I ever drove!!!



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G/MAN - in high gear, tha

08-25-2005 13:40:00




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Former deere owner, 08-25-2005 11:05:35  
nt



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G/MAN

08-25-2005 13:34:18




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Former deere owner, 08-25-2005 11:05:35  
I can take my JD 60 and start from a dead stop heading uphill from Grandpa's driveway. You don't even try the same feat with the "M".



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TheOldMan

09-02-2005 23:28:53




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 13:34:18  
I can stop and restart halfway up the hill on either my H or SuperM. No T/A on either one. Tractor alone or pulling a loaded wagon.

TheOldMan



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supermpuller

08-25-2005 17:55:39




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-25-2005 13:34:18  
Lets see you shift that JD 60 on the go its a snap on a IH M



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TheOldMan

09-02-2005 23:32:38




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 17:55:39  
Easy to do an most any old tractor, no matter who made it. Just gotta know how to drive something other than a slushbox automatic or an overly sychronized, one step on the clutch to shift it "girly" type manual.

TheOldMan



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G/MAN

08-26-2005 05:29:00




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 17:55:39  
Not a problem. But of course when you have some TORQUE, you don't need to downshift or upshift every other time you blink.



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720Deere

08-25-2005 18:35:46




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 17:55:39  
If you can't shift a JD two cylinder on the fly, you haven't spent enough time on one to know what it can do. I spent my share of time on them pulling wagons loaded and empty. Shifting up or down either way is no problem if you know what you are doing.



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buickanddeere

08-25-2005 18:29:51




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 17:55:39  
60 has enouigh torque that shifting is rarely needed. Driving an M requires working the shifter like the oars of a row boat.



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supermpuller

08-25-2005 18:35:59




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to buickanddeere, 08-25-2005 18:29:51  
Rarely needed, you can't shift a 60 on the go. Its hard enough when it setting still.



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G/MAN

08-26-2005 05:29:58




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-25-2005 18:35:59  
Dangit, I'd better tell my "60" to change it's habits. But tell me, if I can start out from a dead stop in sixth and take off, just what gear do I need to be able to shift up to?



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supermpuller

08-26-2005 09:31:06




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-26-2005 05:29:58  
Whats yop end on a 60, 10-11 mph?



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G/MAN

08-26-2005 10:33:32




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-26-2005 09:31:06  
Around 11-12 mph, give or take. And I can pull most hills in 6th with no problem. Not so with the "M". Average that 16-mph worthless 5th in an "M" with it's 5-mph 4th, and what do you get? About 10.5 mph according to my calculations. Downshift that fine Farmstall from 5th to 4th and you lose 9 mph. I downshift from 6th to 5th, and I only lose about 6 mph. That Farmstall 5th is absolutely worthless, ESPECIALLY since it constitutes 20% of the available speeds in the tranny. Buy a Deere and get one ultra-low creeper gear for running PTO equipment at slow travel speeds, 3 good field gears, 1 low-speed/high-load transport gear, and one light transport gear.

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supermpuller

08-26-2005 11:28:04




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-26-2005 10:33:32  
Gee what is the reason the M is the most popular tractor and sold more than a JD?



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G/MAN

08-26-2005 13:48:26




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-26-2005 11:28:04  
What is the reason the "M" was so popular? The Farmall "F"-series. That's a no brainer. Who in their right mind would rather sit on an F-30 than an "M"? And WHY did the "M" and "H" come about? Because Deere was kicking the tar out of "F"-series sales once the "A" and "B" showed up. And the "A" had its BEST sales year EVER even AFTER the Farmstall "M" and "H" were on the market, so IH sure as heck didn't take much market-share from Deere. Want to compare sales numbers of the 856 and 4020, since you brought up the subject???

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720Deere

08-26-2005 18:53:28




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-26-2005 13:48:26  
Why not add up the 806, 826 & 856 then put those numbers up against the 4020? I bet the 4020 still holds it's own! I love the green and have spent plenty of time on the red. I don't have any grudges and don't feel the need to argue over which was better. It doesn't really matter here in 2005 now does it? Oh, that's right it does! Deere is still in business and leading the world in ag equipment!

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supermpuller

08-26-2005 14:13:33




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to G/MAN, 08-26-2005 13:48:26  
You have a problem Gman, JD didn't out sell IH untill late 50's so JD A wasn't kicking anybodies butt, the A never out sold the IH M, your grandpa knew what was the best tractor, want to tell everyone what grandpa drove?



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Island A

08-26-2005 18:32:38




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to supermpuller, 08-26-2005 14:13:33  
WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE A RED VS. GREEN ARGUEMENT!

I believe this was a power-to-weight ratio discussion...

Dave (a GREEN DRIVER that likes ALL COLORS, EVEN RED)



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FB

08-27-2005 10:28:10




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to Island A, 08-26-2005 18:32:38  
yah anyways this is a pulling discussion board not a road gear comparison.....and yes you can haul a load in 5 th with an M no not up hill but hey.....and it is about pulling so yeah Farmall wins as it has at the real king of the hill in tunica mississippi the past two years....when was the last time a JD won that? 2 cylinders 2 too few : D



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pullin H

08-27-2005 11:47:12




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 Re: Tractor weight vs. pulling ability in reply to FB, 08-27-2005 10:28:10  
i dont know what you all are talking about but i have pulled 7500 with my H and not ran out of power



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