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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

y not let them in..afraid???

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qutestoins.....y?

01-06-2005 22:10:24

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If you want to level the playin field....put in a speed limit...sure is alot more fair then lettin baker and his 15mph M compete against 5mph deeres..... and if he wants 15.....a 4010 sure can be built to it...haha.....let them it..a speed limit will fix u idiots whinin and cryin..... ....WAIT...then u have COMPETITION

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Gary Baker

01-08-2005 06:18:22

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to qutestoins.....y?, 01-06-2005 22:10:24

I don't know if you have ever been to a NATPA pull but we have divisions 1 through 5. I ALWAYS pull div4 where it belongs. Sounds to me like you need to be better informed before posting.

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buickanddeere

01-07-2005 21:04:55

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to qutestoins.....y?, 01-06-2005 22:10:24

For once I don't want to stir the pot but... There is something about a mph limit that limits souped tractors snuck into the stock classes. Also reduces insurance companies from over pricing or canceling insurance. Risky when everyone is expecting and the track/equipment is setup for 3-5 mph speeds. Then some joker tears down the track at double+ that speed and 4 times the energy to stop incase of an incident.

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Roho

01-08-2005 22:19:29

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-07-2005 21:04:55

Some joker trying to tear down the track too fast is not a problem.If the speed limit is broken,all the sled operator has to do is step on the brake pedal.They will stop.

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paul580super

01-08-2005 21:34:19

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to buickanddeere, 01-07-2005 21:04:55

if you cant beat someone dont make them slowdown so you can keep up with them. make your run better then his or hers.

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buickanddeere

01-08-2005 23:54:52

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to paul580super, 01-08-2005 21:34:19

In the stock,antique, DIV I & II classes?

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New Generation Antique Pu

01-07-2005 17:34:43

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to qutestoins.....y?, 01-06-2005 22:10:24

Sounds like the pre 1960's antique boys are afraid of the post 1960's antique tractors. Or maybe they are afraid that they won't be able to outpull the newer tractors by out spending them like they do in the antique classes. Or could it be they are ashamed to say their wallets can't out pull the newer antique (post 1960's) tractor's when they are equally weighed! Or it could be that if they can't out power them with there pocket books, they might actually have to drive them like we do in the farm stock classes. Or maybe the pre- 60's antique's are not as powerful as the post-60's antique's! LOL !!!!

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Roho

01-08-2005 21:59:48

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to New Generation Antique Pu, 01-07-2005 17:34:43

Heck,around here they limit you to 1957.I guess they are also afraid of my 450 Farmall too.

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Near stock 88

01-07-2005 18:15:14

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to New Generation Antique Pu, 01-07-2005 17:34:43

Sounds more like you newer BOYS can't keep up with your own style/model of tractors. Never saw Dale Earnhardt Trying to bring his WC car to the local dirt track did you. Bottom line engineering changed so much and so fast back then there is no way you can compare a 1949 Farmall,Oliver,or JD to thier predesesors 20 years later.There is a place for everyone,but you have to draw the line somewhere.

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Roho

01-07-2005 18:30:54

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Near stock 88, 01-07-2005 18:15:14

With all due respect.We are not talking about a 20 year flood of tractors.Just increase the year limit 1 year for evey 3 seasons.That will bring some newer tractors in slowly so the ageless iron people can adjust.

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Roho

01-07-2005 18:02:35

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to New Generation Antique Pu, 01-07-2005 17:34:43

You are right.The newer engines were higher torque from the factory,especially the diesels.Their old engines wont take the torque generated with that kind of horsepower.Id say they have ruined the true fun of antique pulling.An association should be formed where antique pullers that have newer,real antique tractors can have fun.It wont be for 1958 and older,and no newer than 1972.No turbo,no aluminum wheels,and no stripping of original equipment.

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New Generation Antique

01-08-2005 08:49:44

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Roho, 01-07-2005 18:02:35

That would be a double standard, the newer antique tractors should be allowed to be stripped to the bare bones also just like their antique brothers.

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720Deere

01-07-2005 19:16:25

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Roho, 01-07-2005 18:02:35

Wow! You pick on the antique boys for not wanting to pull with tractors newer than 1960, yet you don't want to pull with tractors newer than 1972. What gives? It sounds like the exact same thing just a newer era. If you want a lawless, run what you brung type of pulling, then make it just that. Why not allow tractors up to 1980? Hell, they are already 25 years old!

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badboy

01-07-2005 22:03:25

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to 720Deere, 01-07-2005 19:16:25

Bring em on!!!!!
I'll pull against all of ya

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Roho

01-07-2005 21:00:17

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to 720Deere, 01-07-2005 19:16:25

I dont care what comes in if it will fit in the class.The 72 deal was a suggestion.We need a class for non hot rods to pull strictly stock without any of the blowers and goers you see at the outlaw nationals.They already have their place to pull,but there is a group of pullers being left in the cold because of money and class restrictions.

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supermpuller

01-08-2005 06:22:27

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to Roho, 01-07-2005 21:00:17

What are you going to do with the AC D-21, 190XT and IH 1206 they were all out in 1965 and all have TURBO'S,NTPA pulled these tractors in the mid 60's and early 70's stock for stock the 4020 won't run with them.

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Roho

01-08-2005 22:12:27

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to supermpuller, 01-08-2005 06:22:27

I have owned 3 4020 Deeres,and a 190 XT,AND ANY 4020 I OWNED WOULD PUT MY 190 TO SHAME.

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red hot

01-08-2005 18:37:53

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to supermpuller, 01-08-2005 06:22:27

What about 560 IH? It could be had from the factory with a turbo. They wont let it run and its already in the year range allowed.

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A.P.

01-08-2005 21:29:10

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to red hot, 01-08-2005 18:37:53

I have never seen or heard of a 460/560/660 with a (IH) factory turbo. I have seen a number over the years with M&W turbo kits and turbo's adapted from other tractors, but no factory ones. The 1206 was the first factory IH available with a turbo. A little big but I am sure that we would quickly see one stripped down to the 7500 and eventually even lighter classes.

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redhot

01-09-2005 06:23:09

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560 turbo in reply to A.P., 01-08-2005 21:29:10

What if paperwork can be provided to show that there were factory turbo 560s? Would it be allowed to pull under the current rules?

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A.P.

01-09-2005 12:24:36

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Re: 560 turbo in reply to redhot, 01-09-2005 06:23:09

First you would have to prove that these 560 turbocharger tractors were available to be ordered through the local dealership as a factory installed option. Tractors that the factory played around with as an engineering exercise would not count.

Then you would have a problem with the current rules (NATPA) which would have to be re-written to allow it.

Personally I do not believe the documentation exists, except for prototype/engineering test units.

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Roho

01-08-2005 21:33:30

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to A.P., 01-08-2005 21:29:10

If we want the newer tractors and the extra hook fees.Lets keep them truely stock.NO STRIPPING

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New Generation Antique

01-08-2005 08:52:56

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to supermpuller, 01-08-2005 06:22:27

The late 4020 came with a turbo option.

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720Deere

01-08-2005 17:12:35

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to New Generation Antique, 01-08-2005 08:52:56

Yeah, there cerainly was a 4020 turbo option, it was called the 4320!

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New Generation Antique

01-09-2005 10:17:05

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to 720Deere, 01-08-2005 17:12:35

It was before the 4320, it was available for the late model 4020, before they came out with the 4320!

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105Diesel

01-08-2005 15:11:06

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to New Generation Antique, 01-08-2005 08:52:56

There was NEVER a turbo option for the 4020. Keep dreaming.

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Roho

01-08-2005 15:17:31

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to 105Diesel, 01-08-2005 15:11:06

My cousin has a 72 console 4020,but it was put on as a add-on M&W Kit in 1975.

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A.P.

01-08-2005 13:28:45

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to New Generation Antique, 01-08-2005 08:52:56

That's a new one on me. Never saw a factory 4020 with a turbo. I have seen plenty with M&W setup's and a couple with 4320 turbo's but no 4020's. I would love to see some documentation which proves it, a couple of local J.D. pullers could use the documentation.

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Farmered

01-09-2005 04:53:47

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to A.P., 01-08-2005 13:28:45

I believe that I am correct in saying that all 4020s had turbos. That is the main difference between the 4010 and the 4020. I bought my 4020 in 1963, the first year of the 4020, and it had the turbo from the factory. Some of my neighbors had Borg-Warner injection systems and 20 lb. LP bottles hanging on the side but that was a different question. Ed

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A.P.

01-09-2005 12:15:02

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to Farmered, 01-09-2005 04:53:47

The 4020 was the successor to the 4010. It was not made at the same time as the 4010. The 4320 was the turbocharged version of the 4020.

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105Diesel

01-09-2005 07:36:17

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Re: y not let them in..afraid???-for 720 Deere in reply to Farmered, 01-09-2005 04:53:47

I don't know what space/time continuum you're living in, but it obviously isn't the one the rest of us are occupying---NO, repeat NO 4020's were EVER available from the FACTORY with a turbocharger!! Just didn't happen, despite what you think you remember.

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Heavy Puller

01-07-2005 10:43:43

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to qutestoins.....y?, 01-06-2005 22:10:24

What do you pull ?You let newer tractors in then what do you do with hydra drive, outlaw that?Diesels,put smoke tubes at all the indoor pulls?
Turbo tractors ,outlaw them?Can I pull my 986 in the 5000lb class?How about a 190 ac in the 3500 cass against your H?Is that what you want?

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Green Weenie

01-07-2005 11:14:13

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Heavy Puller, 01-07-2005 10:43:43

I think I know what he has been Pulling,I will garuntee its no tractor!!!!!

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Heavy Puller

01-07-2005 11:21:44

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:14:13

I hear that.I hope that NATPA listens and stays with current years.I would think they could look at history to get there answer look at the Div V with 1959 and the rpm deal what pulls in them classes now ?If you need to pull your newer tractor go ATPA or NTPA.Keep National ANTIQUE Tractor Pullers just that ANTIQUE not Classic or farm stock.

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Green Weenie

01-07-2005 11:34:19

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Heavy Puller, 01-07-2005 11:21:44

You said a mouth full! Board members can you read and relate?

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Wayman

01-08-2005 22:09:07

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:34:19

He didnt say a mouthful of anything but the same old sh$t all of you guys aleays say.Maybe You guys should run for office.You sure are good at repeating that same old song and dance to benefit yourself.

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Green Weenie

01-09-2005 17:13:52

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Wayman, 01-08-2005 22:09:07

O.k. Dufass, when do you think turbos came out on 4020's?

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Boer

01-07-2005 18:11:56

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:34:19

Declining tractor numbers dont surprise me.If you run pulling like a business,then understand business.If you fail to diversify,and change a little with the times,your business will fail.

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supermpuller

01-07-2005 08:03:47

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to qutestoins.....y?, 01-06-2005 22:10:24

IF you JD boys love your two poppers so much ,don't whine about speed and rpm's the 2 cylinder was a slow rpm tractor everyone else was going to 6 cylinders and shift on the go, live with it, besides what are you going to do if they let 4010 in and you still don't win, those big MM would still kick butt.

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The Dukester

01-08-2005 06:31:25

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to supermpuller, 01-07-2005 08:03:47

There has to be enough classes where all tractors can pull but be put with only tractors comparable to their era of manufacture and size. If I gotta take my Farmall M or John Deere G and pull against a lot newer iron I ain't going and they can shove the pull. I know you younger guys got newer tractors to pull, but pull against tractors of the same size and age and stay the he-- out of our antique classes-OK?

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supermpuller

01-08-2005 07:53:36

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to The Dukester, 01-08-2005 06:31:25

I agree I think they should leave the classes alone ,there are enough div. now for everyone, I also find it funny that if you let in 4020's they still wouldn't win.

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Roho

01-08-2005 15:07:42

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to supermpuller, 01-08-2005 07:53:36

Hey,Super M Puller,If they wouldnt win,then what the hell are you afraid of?

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NEW GENERATION ANTIQUE

01-08-2005 08:42:32

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to supermpuller, 01-08-2005 07:53:36

Supermpuller ,I wouldn't count my chicken's before they hatch! Seems as though you guys would let the newer antique's (4010/4020, 826,190xt, 970) pull with ya'll if your so confident you can whip em. Just sounds like a cop out, because you can hide behind the cut off rule for the year of tractor allowed to pull. I agree with the post earlier, that said if you don't change to keep up with the ever changing times your business or organization will eventually fail. You see it happen all around you, change or be run out of business. The way it is now you will not attract as many of the younger pullers, because they did not grow up with the Pre- 60's era tractors. My kids, and the kids around our area could care less about pulling our (G's, M's, 88's) antique's, but when we go to pull the 4020, 826, 190xt, 970, the kids are all pullin them. But that's O.K. just sounds like you don't want the true competition! I always want the best of the best competition there at every pull, so that when I win it is not a hallow victory. Sounds as though you antique guys have alot of hallow victories when you pull. If your still afraid to pull against them then create a class for them, unless you are afraid of attracting any new pullers. I'll bet if you created a class for the newer antique's you be havin quite a few of the antique guy's beggin to pull against them, maybe that's what your organization is really afraid of!!! LOL

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Jeff Oliver

01-08-2005 15:11:35

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to NEW GENERATION ANTIQUE, 01-08-2005 08:42:32

Just out of curiousity , what tractor do you pull? You seem to really want to get down in the antique class really bad. What is the problem? Yours not doing any good against tractors near it's own age?

In and around 1959-1960 tractor technology really made a big jump especially in the Deeres. Then around 1970-72 the technology of the engines and powertrains made alot more advances. Now, if what your wanting to do is run your newer tractor against the older ones then I would say it is you who is scared to pull against similar competiton. Go to NTPA or one of those and run Hot Farm, that is what that class was created for.

But just for the heck of it, Come on down to Tn with yours, I have an Oliver 88 that is farm stock, You get 15.5 tires on it, lighten it up to 5000-5500, pull in low gear or below 3mph and I'll be happy to hook against you. That's how we pull in the farm stock antique class. Ya wanna go faster? there is a 8 mph class as well.

You can have 200 hp but if your limited to speed ,tires and weight then I have as good a chance as you do cause you can't get it all to the ground.

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New Generation Antique

01-09-2005 10:55:28

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Jeff Oliver, 01-08-2005 15:11:35

For the record I've been pulling for over 20 years on a JD-G and a 4010, both are stock! Slap on a set of 16.9's and come up to MI and pull 3mph or 5mph, 1st or 2nd gear for that matter in 5500 - 7000 lb. classes. I'm not going to justify $3000 - $7000 in the motor of the G just so I can compete when I can pull competitively with the 4010 in 6500 - 10,000 lb classes with less than that amount in the whole tractor. Heck I'd even pull exhibition, just for braggin rights. The 2 cent trophy isn't worth as much as the braggin rights. Don't worry I would ruin your pulling click by showing up!

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Jeff Oliver

01-09-2005 21:05:02

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to New Generation Antique, 01-09-2005 10:55:28

hehe well I pull a bone stock Oliver 88 and if I put that much into the motor I would have a stroke! Hehe my whole setup only cost me $1400 and that is including the $400 for the 15.5 tires with pressed steel wheels! But since you do pull a G then you know what I am saying will hold true, if ya keep the speed limits, tires size limit and weight limit you don' have to have mega HP to win. One of the fellas on this board used to have a Tough G that was factory stock meaning it had been bored to factory over .03 in a rebuild once in it's life. Won two points championships that year a the local club. Hehe then ( and I really am not bragging cause I liked his G ) He pulled my 88 and got hooked. Has a tough Super 88 now that is stock as well and does good also.

How light can you get the 4010 and still be what would be considered Farm Stock in an antique pull? Just curious about it ..

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Roho

01-08-2005 22:05:14

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Jeff Oliver, 01-08-2005 15:11:35

You Moron,I cant even pull my 450 farmall against you antiquers,but it is far more advanced than that old crap.

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Jeff Oliver

01-09-2005 08:21:55

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Roho, 01-08-2005 22:05:14

One thing here, First off you don' know me at all let alone well enough to call me a Moron. 450's are allowed to pull around here but the same holds true. If ya got a speed limit weight limit and tire size limit it doesn't matter how much HP you got, you can only get so much to the ground tht will hook. I have actually seen tractors with too much HP just spin out. I have been beat by tractors with less HP and have beaten ones with more. I don't remember griping or whining about it and sure didn't resort to name calling. I will however not resort to it this timaa as well because I will not lower myself to that.

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Heavy Puller

01-09-2005 12:09:15

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Jeff Oliver, 01-09-2005 08:21:55

I wonder who is the MORON I have seen some 450 at the pulls I have been to ,and they do fit in the rules that I read .But I also see that the name caller has trouble deciding who he is Boer ,Roho,Wayman ,Darth just a few he has used on this topic.Go ahead and come to the next pull with your 450 and good luck

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Jak

01-09-2005 17:38:15

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Heavy Puller, 01-09-2005 12:09:15

Not pickin on anything but a 450 isn't a problem competing against if EVERYONE abides by the rules!

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Near stock 88

01-09-2005 05:55:59

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Roho, 01-08-2005 22:05:14

If I may ask,exactly why can't you pull a 450 farmall? Weren't they built in 56,57,58?And most places allow you to pull a newer tactor as long as that model was in production before the cutoff date.Just curious.

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Roho

01-09-2005 19:25:02

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Near stock 88, 01-09-2005 05:55:59

Because the cut off date around here is 57'and the elders of the tribe wont change and allow a 58 model.Hard Headed Pain in the a$$es

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Roho

01-08-2005 15:19:57

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Jeff Oliver, 01-08-2005 15:11:35

Thats all I ask,for an oppurtunity to hook and compete.I dont want to run like a bat out of hell,just for fun is my reasoning.

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Near stock 88

01-08-2005 08:59:10

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to NEW GENERATION ANTIQUE, 01-08-2005 08:42:32

What does age have to do with it.I am in my mid 30s and have been around tractor pulling since I was 4,none of my tracors are newer than 1955. I have ran sleds for trucks,tractors(multiengine,smokers,farm stock,antiques)I still enjoy watching ALL of them and I have never seen a shortage of places for any of them to pull.You somtimes have to realize that you can't always be the big dog in your style of pulling. That doesn't mean you go where the dogs are smaller to play,it means you figure out how to win where you belong.

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Jak

01-08-2005 18:00:19

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Near stock 88, 01-08-2005 08:59:10

Amen!Keep up this and there will be a lot of pre 1960 model tractors for sale with no desire to own them unless they are in a show or have sentimental value.I was wondering when this subject would come up.Antique pullers need to hold firm on this or change things for good.I have no problem with newer tractors and don't even rule out owning one sometime in the future but there is too much enjoyment in antique tractor pulling for it to fade away.There has to be a cut off point somewhere.

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Roho

01-08-2005 15:15:35

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Near stock 88, 01-08-2005 08:59:10

I will tell you what age has to do with it.You said you had been around Pulling since the age of 4.The difference between you and others is that they grew up Farming on these newer tractors,putting thousands of hours on them.They grow a hell of a lot closer to your heart when you use them everyday,not just during the pulling season.

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near stock 88

01-08-2005 19:23:19

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Roho, 01-08-2005 15:15:35

Sorry I forgot to mention my grandfather used olivers on his farm.Not being able to afford alot of land I now do it on the side (hobbie to most real farmers)I enjoy pulling my oliver,but i don't like to see an 88 @ 38 hp having to pull against a 4020 @ 92 hp.If you need to pull that bad find a tractor that fits the rules, don't make the rules to fit your tractor.

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Green Weenie

01-07-2005 11:28:46

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to supermpuller, 01-07-2005 08:03:47

Sir I am a true antique 2 cylinder puller and you are 100% correct. That is MY choice. My fear is if we let in the latter model tractors,where can I pull and be competitive? Their are all kinds of pulls these late models can compete at, but we are limited to where we can run. Just my opinion and its not worth much I wish we could have stayed on 15.5 rubber and an 18 inch draw bar it would have saved us a lot of money but I quess we have to spend it some where. I hope the day never comes when I go to a pull and I can not see a good running farmall M or a G John Deere be competitive!

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Darth

01-07-2005 18:40:38

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:28:46

I think a 700 cube G,or a 450 cube M can still be competitive.

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Darth

01-07-2005 18:04:41

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:28:46

Chicken

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i pull outside

01-07-2005 11:42:32

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Re: y not let them in..afraid??? in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:28:46

I pull outside, and when one is inside i guess i would say put a smoke tube. I have a JD A, and a John deere 4020. I say stock to the eye, if it came factory with a turbo, letem come, if not..then don't put them on...ya know....if you hold someone to a speed limit, then i don't know what all the bitchins about..... .

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