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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Witchita Pull

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miss b havin 36

01-04-2005 14:24:59




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Just sitting here watching this rain turn to ice hoping that we have decent weather for Witchita. Just looked at my Natpa newsletter what do you guys and gals think of letting the newer tractors in div. 1?




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Mo Hay Baler

01-05-2005 20:19:48




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to miss b havin 36, 01-04-2005 14:24:59  
I will tell you fellars what we need.Why not have an out of field class for farmers with tractors that dont fit in your little rules,LIKE IT USED TO BE FOR GUYS THAT WANTED TO HOOK AT THE LOCAL PULL ONCE A YEAR FOR FUN.Thats the way it used to be before a bunch of little peons that run the organizations and pull to started making rules to fit their own needs so they wouldnt get beat.You dipwads cant say that a 1961 4010 JD,or a 1960 56o Farmall isnt an antique.THEY ARE OVER 40 FRIGGIN YEARS OLD.

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NO RESPONSE IF YOUR OUTSI

01-06-2005 16:07:51




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Mo Hay Baler, 01-05-2005 20:19:48  
I couldn't agree with you more Mo Hay Baler. They want to run their 160-200 plus horsepower antiques but are to afraid of the 100-150 horsepower 4010 John Deere or some of the other comparible brand tractors. WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF?



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Green Weenie

01-06-2005 19:42:44




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to NO RESPONSE IF YOUR OUTSI, 01-06-2005 16:07:51  
I know this will be hard for you to understand so I will write slow and not use too many big words O.K.To put on a real tractor pull it takes money, that equates(means)into a large number of hooks or a very large number of different tractors,I hope I have not lost you so far.When you go to a late model farm tractor it should pull up to 10,000 pounds with sound stock gearing, In a perfect pulling world a sled could pull tractors starting at 2500lbs.up to 10,000lbs, but it is very seldom that you find a sled to do that, so the next best thing is to hire 2 sleds so this means double the expense so you either have to acquire {have} twice the number of hooks, or tractors, If this doesn't happen you have to double the hook fees. At the present time hooks are$25 are you or this MO.hay plower ready to lay out 50 bucks so you can hook once a year? Keep in mind that you are po folks and us cheaters have all the money!

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2 Cylinder

01-07-2005 17:00:43




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Green Weenie, 01-06-2005 19:42:44  
You guys are to much fun! Up here where we pull farm stock classes the antique tractors usually win the classes 95% of the time in the classes up to 8000# so the song and dance about the antique class being hurt by letting newer tractors pull with antiques is not true. And the 4010 John Deere's and comparable size tractors pulling in 10,000# class and above is like telling the boys with the 460 IH's and 88 Olivers to pull 7000# classes and above, and you know that won't happen. I have pulled a John Deere G for 20 plus years in farm and antique classes won my share, so this isn't my first time around the hay field. I refuse to justify putting $5000 to $10,000 into the motor of the G so it can compete with the 150 hp plus Oliver's and Farmall's. And weight classes are not an issue for the newer tractors! My 4010 diesel weighs in at 7300# with hydraulics, 3 point hitch and cast wheels, and 6300# is the lightest I have had it, and all this with only a 100 hp. I say this with all due respect, but I think you antique boys are afraid of a little competition, even though you guys probably double my 4010's horsepower.

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Roho

01-07-2005 17:51:31




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 Re: Witchita Pull-well said 2 cylinder in reply to 2 Cylinder, 01-07-2005 17:00:43  
I also think they are afraid of my stock 460 gas.Why are they also afraid of a torque,muti power,or hydra-power?They came out in the early 50's,yet they wont let you use this FACTORY EQUIPMENT to kick their rears.



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Mo Hay Baler

01-06-2005 21:13:31




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 Re: Witchita Pull- And Another Thing! in reply to Green Weenie, 01-06-2005 19:42:44  
50 bucks once a year is a hell of a lot cheaper than dragging that same old tractor to all the same old pulls year after year,block after block,gallon after gallon of $2 gasoline,and what are those engines costing you?$2000?4000? a whack.Yeah,Id just hate to have to pay a $50 hook fee



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Mo Hay Baler

01-06-2005 20:43:29




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Green Weenie, 01-06-2005 19:42:44  
You must be a crooked engine builder yourself,if you have that much money.As far as bigger weight classes go for older 80 to 100 hp tractors will weigh in right with current weight classes,and you still have the added benefit of extra hook fees.The 3010,4010,460,560,D17,770,880,ALL WILL FIT IN EASILY AT OR BELOW THE PUNY 8500 CLASS.



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Green Weenie

01-07-2005 11:00:43




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Mo Hay Baler, 01-06-2005 20:43:29  
Are you just plain goofy or what?



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Mo Hay Baler

01-07-2005 16:04:18




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Green Weenie, 01-07-2005 11:00:43  
Have you ever looked at tractor weights before?Shipping weight on a 4010,4020 is 8185 for diesel,and 7935 for gas tractors.Farmalls are much the same,as well as Ollies,and Allis.Many of these other brands are lighter than deere,and if you strip all working functions off of them,like all the ancient iron pullers do,they can go a lot lighter.Why the need for a heavier pulling sled?



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Mo Hay Baler

01-06-2005 16:45:31




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to NO RESPONSE IF YOUR OUTSI, 01-06-2005 16:07:51  
You may have seen the TNT Machine shop mentioned.I believe they do good work,but he builds everybodys tractors around for miles,but he is also responsible for heading up a lot of the pulls,and pulls himself,so the rules are custom made for the guys that can afford to pay him.Not a fair playing field for us Po Folks that wanna have some fun.



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Green Weenie

01-06-2005 17:18:23




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Mo Hay Baler, 01-06-2005 16:45:31  
You have been in the hay fields entirely too long you poor fellow you really should get out more often.



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Mo Hay Baler

01-06-2005 17:24:42




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Green Weenie, 01-06-2005 17:18:23  
Id rather work in a hay field than associate with a bunch of cheating green weinies



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Green Weenie

01-06-2005 17:33:45




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Mo Hay Baler, 01-06-2005 17:24:42  
Did ja fellars gitya a knew compooter for krismas huh



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Mo Hay Baler

01-06-2005 19:09:07




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Green Weenie, 01-06-2005 17:33:45  
Yes We did,and I will say this."Those green weinies are the worst spellers Ive ever seen."



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JPatton

01-04-2005 16:07:58




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to miss b havin 36, 01-04-2005 14:24:59  
Miss b havin - Ya got that B ready to go? Hope the ice goes away. Things look bad here in KC.. I would be in favor of Div I tractors up to 1959. That would keep the New Gen John Deeres out.



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2 Cylinder

01-05-2005 16:02:11




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to JPatton, 01-04-2005 16:07:58  
First off, I am not a member of the Napta. But I am in favor of of letting the newer tractors pull with the antiques, or creating a class for them to pull in. I have pulled a JD-G for over the last 20 years up until this year. This year I bought a 4010 John Deere so I could even the uneven playing field against the 2 cylinder John Deere's by the other tractor brands. I don't know what everyone is so worried about the new generation John Deeres when the other brand names have comparable size tractors. If you don't want them pulling against the antique's then create a class for them, say up to 1972. I believe it would be good for the sport and would bring in more pullers to the sport of tractor pulling, that already pull these tractors. Diversify a little! You create classes for more horsepower tractors, why not one NOW for the new generation tractors!?? Just my opinion.

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miss b havin36

01-04-2005 20:29:15




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to JPatton, 01-04-2005 16:07:58  
The B is ready but a lot depends on this darn weather,we would like to hit Carthage also, Its been a while since we have been hooked to Kelly or Larry's sleds, Personally I can't see where they are going with the newer tractors. We sure like our antiques, I'm afraid if we let the newer ones in it will be a short matter of time and they will want them in all divisions.



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GARY BAKER

01-05-2005 05:33:16




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to miss b havin36, 01-04-2005 20:29:15  
I agree 100% about the newer tractors. Let them in any class, and before long they will be in all classes. Allowing the newer tractors to pull will hurt the current Antiques, thus making them stay home.
We need to keep the pullers that we have. NATPA pullers need to voice your opinion (eather way) by contacting the NATPA Board members or E mail them on the NATPA wed site.



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Past NATPA Member

01-05-2005 09:40:31




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to GARY BAKER, 01-05-2005 05:33:16  
Gary, I don't see any problem with letting the newer tractors in to pull with the older ones as long as you don't brand favor like NATPA does today and has done for years. If you are going to allow an RPM advantage to one brand and not any other then yes, it will be a problem with the way NATPA favors brands today. Why is it that a WC Allis gets a RPM advantage over all other brands. Then to make it even more un-fair NATPA favors all it predecessors right up the line. No other brand gets this favoritism. If you want an explanation ask Bill Birch about it. Better yet ask him when the membership voted this in?? It was never voted on by the members and was put in the RPM limits by some of the board members in the middle of a pulling season. It never got changed and never will now, because all you have left is a majority of Allis tractors in these lighter classes. I know because I was a member when this happened and that is why I am not today. Over just plain principal I will not pull NATPA over that and will continue to discourage everyone else not to pull with them for the same reasons. Birch finally excepted the fact that if he wanted to beat an Oliver he had to pull one himself. If NATPA is going to allow one brand of tractor an RPM advantage then every other tractor brand in the class should have the same advantage, Oh maybe that advantage the Allis gets does not make any difference ( as I have heard say), then if that is the case then take the 200 RPM advantage away from them. An Oliver 77 / 88, a Ford 900 / 960, John Deere A / B , an H / M Farmall or any other brand don't get this advantage. I was hoping maybe they would get someone in office that would live up to the past managements wrong doing and correct this injustice. Are you the man? I have nothing against you or anyone else that pulls with NATPA but find it pretty sad that the directors are more interested in there own interest than the associations. I have been at pulls (not NATPA) and have seen your M pull and it runs good as it has had allot done to it I am sure so an issue like this probably will fall on deaf ears again. No need to give me or any other past member the excuse to come to the rules meeting to vote when the rules are made / changed by the crooked board members during the season. I have been a member and have come to the rule meetings to vote on issues. This issue is about past wrong doing without the memberships vote that directors won't address. If you want to make it fair for all brands, all four cylinder Allis should run the same RPM and what ever the advantage is on the lowest RPM model (in this case WC) all other brands should get the same percetage / advantage on it lowest RPM model. This means that some models of the same brand may get some extra and some may have to run stock RPM. Same goes for Oliver, all six cylinder Oliver's should have the same RPM limit. All four cylinder Oliver's would have the same but different limit than the six cylinder models, all limits should be based off the high and low stock limits of the same cylinder number / brand of tractor. You would find that it really wouldn't change the limits so much just give all brands the same advantage. Funney the division five folks seem to see the need for this in there classes??

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Oliver Puller

01-07-2005 06:21:52




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Past NATPA Member, 01-05-2005 09:40:31  
If we are going to whine about the Olivers, go look at all the rules restricting the Olivers!!!
No 1600 Head, No 99 Head, No 7 main Block, No Diesel crossflow heads on a gas!!!!! This needs to go!!!!!



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miss b havin 36

01-05-2005 12:28:32




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Past NATPA Member, 01-05-2005 09:40:31  
You didn't state if you were a charter member or not, if so surely you remember when the organization had the big turn outs and at that time you were only allowed two hooks per tractor. If you look at the numbers now it is truely pitiful how the tractor numbers have declined. the only reason that I am still a member is that I have hoped for change and it changes all the time but not for the better it seems. I like your self have personal issues and thats why you do not see my F20 at Napta pulls. Shannon loves to pull her B with her Napta freinds and I am guilty of spoiling my children but their is only so much nonsense I will take and it is about to this point. I can not understand how much more the pull promoters can stand before they cut Napta loose. Before the organization starts anything else maybe they could take a look at what direction they are heading. This forum used to be alive with things pertaining to Napta pulls but it certainly is dead now, I am sorry, I did not mean to get on the soap box and I know Shannon is tired of typing so I will stop. `` Mike

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Heavy Puller

01-04-2005 17:34:21




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to JPatton, 01-04-2005 16:07:58  
Good luck with the weather for this weekend .Hope it is good on the 22nd for Carthage planning on making that trip.Newer tractors in NATPA I say if it aint broke dont fix it you might just get what you asked for .I dont see it being a good thing ,it sure wont fix anything and there are still enough older tractors for sale out there reasonably priced .Most Divisions have good numbers for the most part.If you must have them put them in DIV 5 and have fun that class is getting lower in #"s all the time.

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baystatebinder

01-06-2005 21:36:44




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 Re: Witchita Pull in reply to Heavy Puller, 01-04-2005 17:34:21  
The problem as I see it. That is reading it for the last 4 years at different sites are the exceptions. If you take away all exceptions and make it completely objective your problems go away. I have always found it absurd that the rpms follow through the stages of improvements. I pull a 460 and do very well with it. But it shouldn't get 660 rpms or 806 rpms. If you limited each model the same using nebraska numbers for each you wouldn't have such a problem with letting newer models in. You also need to have some weight guidlines. 4000 lb class can't be more 40 hp stock Neb. test 4500 lb can't be more than 45 hp Neb test.

If you don't let in newer tractors you will kill your club. I grew up with the 60, 56, 06, series tractors. My father with the letter series then the number series. The tractors I grew up with give sentimental reasons for wanting to pull them an H doesn't get me all that interested, nor does a 300. The crowd wants to see the tractors they grew up with pull also. It all comes down to vision. Tractor pulling shouldn't be so difficult and it shouldn't get so stressful.

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