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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

More Cubes-less carb

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clarence bareni

12-26-2004 04:55:25




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Question:
FARMALL (M) increasing cubic inch from 281 to 327ci, using the same carb, IS there anyway to maximumize the carb to feed more cubes?
I understand the process of drilling out the emulsion tube, their are a few different venturi's to play with, but is there away to increase effiency thru carb to increase HP and low end torque !
There is a ton of emphasis put on increased c.i., head porting, cam profile's, matched runners, but is there away to match carb.
What is the standard rule of thumb to feed cubic inch thru an updraft carb.

all advice would be a big help>

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BUDD

12-27-2004 04:32:59




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to clarence barenie, 12-26-2004 04:55:25  
Hey Bud what class are you pulling this tractor in?

BUDD)"":""(



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Clarence Barenie

12-27-2004 16:55:05




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to BUDD, 12-27-2004 04:32:59  
BUDD:
Okay, this is my third try at posting.
I'll let out all the secrets.
PULLING A 39(M)
WEIGHT CLASSES 4500-5500, 5500-6500, 6500-7500
SPOKED REAR WHEELS
SINGLE FRONT WHEEL
NO HOOD !
14.9-38 ROAD AND FIELD !
W-6 RING AND PINION
SOUTH BEACH DIET. NEED TO DROP BODY WEIGHT TO 155LB
FRONT WEIGHT BRACKET
WHEELIE BARS
KILL SWITCH
SECOND MOTOR BUILD-UP, TO BE READY FOR ANY DOWN TIME !
WORK MY DAILY ROUTE AROUND PULLING SCHEDULE !
DROPP TRACTOR AND TRAILER IN GENERAL AREA OF PULL, SO I CAN CALL ON CUSTOMER'S IN THAT AREA OF PULL DAY !
MENTAL ATTITUDE, CREATED NIGHT BEFORE PULLING
PURE TAKE NO PRISION ATTITUDE WHILE HOOKED TO SLED! (BEAT THAT CASE-BEAT THAT CASE )

IN GENERAL, CAN'T WAIT TO JUST PULL AGAIN !
I HOPE THE RAINY SEASON DOESN'T CONINUE NEXT YEAR, IT SURE JACKED UP MY YARD THIS YEAR !
THEIR GOES THE SEED AGAIN !!!

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clarence barenie

12-27-2004 16:09:00




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to BUDD, 12-27-2004 04:32:59  
BUDD!
I just typed in a long post, i can't remember my yt-mag pass word !!
i'll post ya later, just losted my intire train of thought ! brother !!!



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ChadS

12-27-2004 04:47:35




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to BUDD, 12-27-2004 04:32:59  
Local class???? heheheheee!!! Just kiddin Barenie!! LOL ChadS



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Clarence Barenie

12-27-2004 17:27:22




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to ChadS, 12-27-2004 04:47:35  
HEY CHADS
I'm in rare form tonight ! I've BEEN doing all the family stuff for three day's. Had a great christmas, it's always good when the misses, is happy !
Anyway, I GOT YOUR LOCAL CLASS !!!!
LOL HEEEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHE AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF
YOU BUILD YOUR 450 AND I'LL BUILD MINE (OUCH)!!

YOU HAVE A GOOD EVENING SIR (LOVE THE DIGGEN !!!



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buickanddeere

12-26-2004 07:55:52




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to clarence barenie, 12-26-2004 04:55:25  
The more venturi in there, the stronger the metering signal is at low rpms.
The venturi may look restrictive while looking through the carb but the smooth taper and straight flow path affect flow. Only to a minor degree at absolute peak flow rates. A larger carb or one with a bored out venturi may make an extra HP or two at peak rpms. Mid range torque may or may not be improved.
Unless the carb mods are done on a dyno by an expert. The oversized carb engine tends to fall flat on it's face when lugged down. Many times the cam gets blamed but it's erratic/weak booster signal limiting fuel flow and mixing.
Monster carbs do have thier place on wildly bored and stroked engines, engines which have had the rpms really cranked up. And on a rare few occassions, the factory did build the engine with the carb as the limiting factor.
Just set and timing, idle, main mixture and valve lash on a dyno with a stock carb. It's amazing how much low and mid range torque can be hiding in there for free. Sraightening the flow path into the carb to reduce turbulance. And ensureing the choke and throttle plates open to 90 degrees is more important.
Blending off casting flaw rough edges and projections, even too long screw threads on choke & throttle plates may cause turbulance. Use loctitie to keep those screws from entring the engine please.

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clarence barenie

12-26-2004 12:55:18




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to buickanddeere, 12-26-2004 07:55:52  
would eliminating the choke plate all together have an advantage, if only using in warm weather !
appreaciate the advice !



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770

12-28-2004 17:12:10




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to clarence barenie, 12-26-2004 12:55:18  
Eliminating the choke plate is a BIG MISTAKE. The choke plate also acts to "stabilize" if you will, the air pouring into the carb.....Dyno with and without and you will see what I mean....Make sure it opens all the way to a full 90 degrees.



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cLARENCE bARENIE

12-29-2004 03:41:35




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to 770, 12-28-2004 17:12:10  
GENTLEMEN:
Thanks for all the good advice. I thank you !



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ChadS

12-26-2004 13:39:33




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to clarence barenie, 12-26-2004 12:55:18  
Bud, knowing your potential setup for your engine,, few things to ponder, Your setup will work best with a Super M-450 venturi, dont use the big 6 cyl venturi inthe 4 cyl engine! The flow in the 4 cyl, and the 6 cyl manifolds, and carbs are slightly different, and dotn breathe the same, it kills torque in the low lugging rpms,, Now, as far as increasing the bore size in the carb, yes you can do that, use the butterfly from the 6 cyl carb when you have the throttle body bored out. USE THE SHAFT from the throttle body!!! not for the 6 cyl carb. Another thing to think about is what kind of fuel you intend to run in this engine, your looking at a starting point of 9.5 to 1 easily for compression, and possibly much more,, so be looking into fuels this winter,, I got some good fuel references that work well in the IH 4 cyls for what you are intending. ChadS

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clarence barenie

12-27-2004 03:52:36




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to ChadS, 12-26-2004 13:39:33  
thank you sir !!
Every day is one step closer to a fire in the hole !!!!



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ChadS

12-27-2004 04:57:37




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 Re: More Cubes-less carb in reply to clarence barenie, 12-27-2004 03:52:36  
Bud, also I dont think you wanna get rid of the choke assembly. You can smooth up the shaft to give it a bit more flow,, but you really dont wanna git rid of it. Ive tried removing them, but can be hard to start sometimes,,,, cold, or warm,, I flowed a carb for my 460,, removed the choke,, and it was a pain to start, once it started it ran good,, but sure did go thru a set of brushes inthe starter real quick. I put it all back in, starts up pretty easy now. You asked what was new down here,,,,, building that 450 I told ya about,, my 460, the head is coming off, and swapping with a truck head,, My Something Wilder H,, new block is in the forcast, a few design flaws in the block we built last year,, so its getting the make over. Mite be able to plow with this engine! Who knows? LOL! It will be a dry sleeved, 4.030 bore 350 block. Lot thicker sleeves in this block, and the dry sleeve insert,will help hold the aftermarket sleeves in place better. Last engine lasted 9 seasons, hope this one will go for 10!!! ChadS

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