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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P.

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Mopower

06-10-2004 04:40:09




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From talking to pullers, I have learned that if too much (70+) horsepower is built in to an R, the tranny will fail...especially in a class like 4500. How would a ZT tranny hold? I could have from 90-110 h.p. A 110 h.p. 2750# tractor would be unheard of, but I may go the ZT/JT route and pull 3500#. I have not built real hot motors like this one. Mostly just bolting M-M stuff together for cheap fun and horsepower.

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ChadS

06-10-2004 06:55:12




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 Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P. in reply to Mopower, 06-10-2004 04:40:09  
Mopower, we felt the same way when we built Something Wilder. Putting that much power in front of a smaller tranny, well,,, things break... But here is my expereience with that,, when I first built it,, I replaced every brearing, and bad component in the tranny and final drives, old bearings have slack, and will create a disasterous result,, keep all of you tolerances in the tranny, and final drives in good shape, and dont go beating on it the first time out,,, that is how pullers either get hurt, or have to spend $$ to fix it. I was looking at my Z, I would honestly say that if it was in tip top shape, it would handle triple digit Hp numbers,,, but just like racin, or any other type of motor sports,, you have to keep an eye on it,,, ChadS

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Mopower

06-10-2004 07:03:30




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 Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P. in reply to ChadS, 06-10-2004 06:55:12  
ChadS, what was "Something Wilder"? Yeah I heard of trannys breaking up in little R's but usually in 4500 class. If I feel confident down the road, I may switch engines with my RT and try it. I only pull a few times a year and locally, but you guys really get me goin for some bigger goals!



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ChadS

06-10-2004 07:36:37




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 Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P. in reply to Mopower, 06-10-2004 07:03:30  
It is a Farmall H, 1940 model. I had the Z running yesterday!! Raking hay with it!! Contrary to popular belief,, smaller tractor rear ends can handle the power increase, providing that you know where the limits of the tractor is.... Me, I never had trouble with my H, till I changed my pulling setup on it, and made it hook up, instead of spinning out at the end of the pull. Also, when the engine lugs way down, I dont let it die, I let off of it, And stop it. More damage to high Hp engine is caused when you lug an engine like that down to its knees. I went back to my old set up, and spin at the end,, but it still can go the distance, I have to drive it harder to get there, but it is there none the less. LOL Just take your time with it,, I ran the H for 7 seasons before I had trouble with the engine, and tranny,, but I write that up to my stupidity for it breaking,, I tried to go beyond the limits of the tractor, and when that happened,, SNAP!!! Chad

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Mopower

06-10-2004 09:10:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H in reply to ChadS, 06-10-2004 07:36:37  
Our neighbor's ZA was raking and bailing yesterday. The tranny looks more like a small U. I'm sure it is strong. It is always good to hear you commentary based on experience. It helps confirm my mental "stabs in the dark" sometimes. Building that motor will be my biggest challenge because I am used to just freshening things up and putting the best MM parts together. Never building RPM, highh compression or major stroking or anything. We'll see what happens.

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OldPuller

06-10-2004 18:56:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength a in reply to Mopower, 06-10-2004 09:10:07  
Why would you listen to Chads BS????? ???? He has never seen inside an R transmission. He owns a Z but knows nothing about it. The best he can do for you is sell you a $3 spring for $30 and tell you to adjust your carburetor.



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ChadS

06-11-2004 07:05:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Streng in reply to OldPuller, 06-10-2004 18:56:00  
Athyrio,, u get a new Ip address??? LOL What makes you think, in over 14 years of turning wrenches on old tractors, that I have never seen a R MM torn down????? ???? Have you ever seen a 62 Chevy Imapala SS 409 all torn apart?? I have,, or how about a 1929 farmall regular,, or how about taking over 20 tractors apart, and do a class 5 restoration on them,, all by my self and at the age of 18????? wanna see pics??? wanna come see them at a good power show???? When you get a life Athyrio,, you go get U a tractor,, whether you steal it, build it or buy it,, u come pull against me, you put one together and we will dyno it and we will see who gets it right, with, or without the dyno!!!! My talents are off this world, and I like to share what I know,, in a world where secrets are the key to success,, the little guys have someone in their corner who has been there, done that tried that tested that, proved that. and can HONESTLY say, yes, that may work, or no try something else. so Athyrio, or Old puller,, you go do what you gotta do, ChadS

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OldPuller

06-11-2004 18:53:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny St in reply to ChadS, 06-11-2004 07:05:07  
So after all that BS you still don't know anything about an R moline. Who are you trying to impress? Your lies are getting old.



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ChadS

06-11-2004 23:14:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Trann in reply to OldPuller, 06-11-2004 18:53:24  
Oh yes, I am just spreading the lies all around the world,, right?? Yelling at the top of my lungs the only thing in my life, I can honestly say, I know something about. Funny, you gotta hide under someone elses name,, the Mcmaster carr thing just gave it up!! Oh no, my lies were hiding that little scharade of yours athyrio!! Having a sleep over at little johnnys house r we??? When u gonna come to terms, that I fight for what I know is right? Ya aint chasin me off, stalk me all you like, say what you will, AINT SKEERED!!! Aint running from squat. Just words,, sticks N stones. All I hear from you whinning crap is I am lying,, well prove it, you cant tell a carburator from a jackhammer. let alone know what it is like to build a 20,000 dollar pulling engine. Nor spent countless hours on the dyno finding out what it takes to go the distance with what I have to offer. It is just a FARMALL,, Model H. It is called SOMETHING WILDER!!!!! A tractor that has a history!! Along with all of the pullers who have been to the depts of Hartford KY, having a second, third, fourth visit with MR Lampkin and the USAP, Not one complain did I ever hear from anyone under John. And nor will I!! Let me tell ya, I went to Hartford, every pull Ol John ever held there as a National advertized pull, we went. Seen a whole new world of pulling, just because at the time, we had not stepped out of our back yard, and not seen other styles of pulling, other than our local club. You know what?? It took us 2 visits to Hartford,, and I was in the money. next visit, 3 first places in a row, made the hook magazine for the first USAP Championship in 2000!1 Little ol me on my baby H. In the magazine, where sometimes I felt that pulling legends walked, and they got the pic in there because they made the headlines at that event. All with a little Farmall H, "Something Wilder" I wish I had a dollar for all of the R MM I have worked on, seen, or what have ya, Shoot in Indiana,, they are here, there, every where. Did live not too far from Bob Hawk either, In my opinion, the greatest MM expert on the planet!! So Oh yes my dearly confused friend, I have seen many MM tractors in many shapes and forms, not too many tractors I have not seen. Indiana is a farming community, especially in where I am located, If there is not some old tractor running, working, playing with in 1 mile of me everyday, then the world must have stopped selling gasoline, cause the antiques are alive in this area, and more than likely, 2 out of 3 have came out of our shop one time or another. 15 years,, lots of blood, sweat, tears, and triumph out of our little shop, with our little tractors, And wit ha clear blue passion, for antique eqipment, pulling or not, you have the gall to say I dont know squat. I have seen the big show pulls, been to lots of em!! Won a few myself, and that is one thing you will not, say that is a lie. I am a winner in this life, and I got the records to prove it all. I am no why shape or form giving it up either! So go on Athyrio, Old Puller or whatever dumba$$ name you come up with next,, TRY TO CHANGE THE PAST RESULTS!! Cause my future, my life, my heart, is for the pullers, for the old junkers in the fence row, to the first time byers, to first time pullers, to 50 year veterns in this sport, I made a scratch,, I was honest doing it too. Find a Lie in this post!! ChadS

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OldPuller

06-12-2004 05:38:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT T in reply to ChadS, 06-11-2004 23:14:14  
Who are you trying to impress with all your BS?
I know better. Anybody that read this can tell you are full of BS. Is your tractor the only thing that make your life worth living? What a losser. Go ahead, pull the trigger and finish it. No one will miss you.



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ChadS

06-12-2004 08:37:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. in reply to OldPuller, 06-12-2004 05:38:55  
Not very nice!!! Why U hiding your name Athyrio? Shoot, go on keep hiding,, One of these days,, Someone will get you to open up, maybe we all may like you, (NOT ME) but some one!! How about instead of u and me arguing about pulling, would you argue with me about the weather or something else?? Probably not. It is too bad that someone has to hate in this world,, but if that is your life style, thanks for sharing that part of that with us,, is that whatyou want all to see in you? I have a story to tell you, and you may see a bit into my world, may not be too far off from you!! When I was younger, in school, I was the kid that was always teased in class, did not dare to go outside to recess, got my butt kicked everyday!! Tormented, beat up, and all because that is the way the kids were then. Teachers and principals said to mom n dad, BOYS WILL BE BOYS. BS to me, went on from 1st grade, till about 6th grade, then, one day, all that hostility, frustration, all those years of getting teased, I followed the traits that other have done to me, became a bully myself, And you know what? My education, was disrupted, my life, I lived in fear from the bigger kids, then I started acting just like them,, I am not for sure why I did that, but what I had done, was be a bully, like Charlie Brown, did not care who I hurt, or teased, made cry, and I wish I had a dollar for every time I was in the principals office, I think I spent more time in the office in ISS, more than classes!! Point is, is that was the environment in which I was rasied, I had nothing else to embrace, nothing to look forward to, no future, until one day, Dad came home with my first farmall. Things gotten better from that point, Schooling was not much for me,, cause of the damage path others, and myself had put infront of me, my education was so far behind, but still kept getting passed on throughout the grades, maybe just to get rid of me the school thought,,, who knows,, I was just too far behind in classes, spent too much time getting in and out of trouble, I got educated in disipline let me tell ya!! I did not realize what kind of impact, or legacy I left when I did what I did in school, not as a schollar, (spellin) but the did rewrite the disipline rules in the school, and I was the one to inspire it. Uncontrolable they said about me. I ended up quitting school in my JR year, went to vocational school classes for my GED, got it,, and moved on. All I can say is that I made alot of mistakes growing up, mistakes that in fact ruined and changed the course of my life forever. But now, I have something to give back, to something!! I look back,, and I wish that things did not go the way they did, but I survived, I hurt alot of people when I bullied others,, said alot of stuff just to be mean,, and I wish I could take it all back, and make ammends with all who knew me then, but you know what?? that may still never happen!! And all I have to thank for all of this is the same stupidity you show everytime you post. I classify you as a terrorist, not one to blow up buildings, or whatever,, but one who just likes to spread fear, and deciet!! I fear no one these days, I fear myself, for if I make mistakes,, instead of running from them, I face them head on. Big step for someone who is so used to running away. running away is what people like you try to force others to do. One more thing,, I aint leavin,, you have tried, unsucessfully by the way,, All I can say is GOD help you Athyrio. He is showing me a different way too. One with no violence, not teasing, and no pain inflicted from me on to others. I also dont think you read anything I post, you just see my name and go a pickin. Maybe you will read this post, I am just a man, in a little shop, with a lot of old equipment.. Who do I impress? MY grampa in heaven,, he smiles down on us when we pull, he loved his Farmall H tractors. All he farmed 200 acres with in the 40's and 50's. So yes, he and all of those who passed on,, they are my auidience, they are my fans, I am continuing what they started. Good enough for me. Chad

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OldPuller

06-12-2004 14:39:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R in reply to ChadS, 06-12-2004 08:37:31  
Did you want me to read all that BS. LOL I hope someone reads all that BS, because I had enough of your lies and got better things to do.



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ChadS

06-12-2004 15:45:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M- in reply to OldPuller, 06-12-2004 14:39:17  
LOL why, cant read??? Hit a nerve? I hear jumping off of cliffs is popular in your world. !! Or taking long walks off short piers,,,, smelling a scratch n sniff sticker at the bottom of a pool,, Hope this gives ya an idea on sunday plans!!!! ChadS



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OldPuller

06-13-2004 07:18:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to ChadS, 06-12-2004 15:45:34  
This all started with you talking about something you know nothing about. Then you told a bunch of lies. After that we got your life story. All the time you are insulting me (and you don't know even know who I am)
Grow up Chad. You can't know it all. It is clear that you need this message broad to make yourself feel important. Thats OK with me, just stick to what you know and stop the BS on what you have no clue.

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ChadS

06-13-2004 08:48:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to OldPuller, 06-13-2004 07:18:17  
elaborate on my lies , and yes I do have a good idea on who ya are, either that or you are following in athyrios foot steps.. Athyrio says the exact same thing you said, so what am I supposed to think?? tell me what I lied about, hit me up on it, lets bury this then, ChadS



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ChadS

06-13-2004 08:55:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to ChadS, 06-13-2004 08:48:03  
Also, you started the insults first, so dont go portyaing yourself as a saint,, and yes, I did insult you right back cause that is the way I am,, I dont take crap from anyone,, and you keep on comming back at me. this all started 3 weeks ago, I know where it started, and has continued.. Who cares about my life story,, it is mine, and I dealt with it. you are not the only one who reads these posts!!! And,, yes, I love this web site, turns out, I know alot of good pullers on here that I met long ago,, This site rocks,, that is why you keep comming back right??? sure it is not just to bash me!!! I am asking you to please elaborate me on my "LIES" I did not spend all the time in the shop, working testing and well what ever, Hit me up on it, put it right at the begginning of the first page, new topic, come on,, lets bury this once and for all, go on, hit me up on it. I will not insult ya, let me hear it!!! ChadS

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ChadS

06-11-2004 22:29:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Trann in reply to OldPuller, 06-11-2004 18:53:24  
So are the acusations that u throw athyrio. all BS yourself, but nithing to back it up.



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Slo

06-11-2004 18:38:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny St in reply to ChadS, 06-11-2004 07:05:07  
My talents are off this world? Good thing you're so modest...



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ChadS

06-11-2004 22:35:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Trann in reply to Slo, 06-11-2004 18:38:14  
Yep, the most modest SOB you may ever meet LOL !! ChadS



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Mopower

06-11-2004 04:50:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Streng in reply to OldPuller, 06-10-2004 18:56:00  
ChadS has always been friendly, positive, and will give a word of help to anyone if he can. He seems to have some experience too. I know he is an I-H guy and that's ok. I've never seen his trophy room, but never-the-less, always good to hear from him. It is always logical advice. Advice never hurt anyone. You don't have to listen to it if you don't want to. As for me, I will.



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a puller

06-10-2004 19:26:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Streng in reply to OldPuller, 06-10-2004 18:56:00  
your one of them damn instigaters ain't ya...well so far I haven't heard anything that I can't apply with my knowledge to make things better. The convenience(sp) of the spring is worth it and if your so bent outta shape about it you sell them for 3$...but if people are willing to spend the 30, then LET THEM DO IT!!. it would be there own problem..not yours. you guys have a nice day.



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37ZTU

06-10-2004 06:49:17




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 Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P. in reply to Mopower, 06-10-2004 04:40:09  
The ZTU tranny is alot stronger than the R tranny. ZTU trannys are basically the same all the way through to the ZB. What engine are you going to use? There are 3 ZTU/ZA's in my area that have been highly warmed over. The most I have seen from the side valve engine is the 75-80 hp range. That was on a 3.81 x 5.75 motor with propane head and manifolds. A 335/445/U302 motor will fit and could be max'd out at the HP levels you are thinking about, but they still have very restrictive manifolds.

Good luck and have fun!
Mark Damewood

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Mopower

06-10-2004 06:59:33




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 Re: Re: M-M R vs. ZT Tranny Strength and H.P. in reply to 37ZTU, 06-10-2004 06:49:17  
It will be a couple years before it is built up because I have a G engine 1947 UTU and a hot 3.81 x 5 1939 RT that should crank 60 h.p. I may just bolt it together as is and run it as "Twin-Sh***y" at first with my stock power unit I am installing. Twin City JTU with a HD220 motor. I will make it breathe. Got the idea because I love my peppy 206 in my two Jet Stars. Very quick and gutsy. We will see what happens. So many projects, so little time. I only pull a few times a year.

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