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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

JD rpm??

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r's...

03-15-2004 20:02:11




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what can you run for rpm in an A JD with a 7.250 stroke welded crank with .045 pistons in it? what about an A with 9" welded stroke crank and 6.125 pistons?I want to run as many as possible....I was thinking maybe the 9" one 1200-1500?? and the 7 1/4 " one maybe 1500-2000??? what is everyones opinion?? thanks alot




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buickanddeere

03-16-2004 20:44:38




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 Re: JD rpm?? in reply to r's..., 03-15-2004 20:02:11  
1591 rpm subjects rotating parts to twice the centrifical loads that stock fast idle of 1125 rpm does. It's you sitting ontop of the grenade and the crowd is nearby. One of these days an antique puller is going to kill people with shrapnel or bounce the tractor off the track into the crowd. We won't be able to get insurance for even just an antique show aftrwards. Little to no HP as gained as torque is lost due to reduced cylinder filling at high rpms.

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G-MAN

03-17-2004 10:21:49




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 Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to buickanddeere, 03-16-2004 20:44:38  
Didn't an Allis flywheel come apart and kill somebody on the east coast awhile back?



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buickanddeere

03-17-2004 13:53:40




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 Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to G-MAN, 03-17-2004 10:21:49  
We should get the full story on that mess. I've heard only a brief report. I can see shows/pulls canceled due to insurance problems.



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G-MAN

03-17-2004 15:35:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to buickanddeere , 03-17-2004 13:53:40  
That could easily happen if guys continue to try and push 50+ year old iron way past it's limits. If they want to run 2000+ rpm, they should move up out of the antique classes and pull tractors that are DESIGNED to do so. And for the amount of money some guys are putting into hopping up these antiques to run like "real" tractors, they could. I don't care how much cash you put in an "A", it still ain't gonna outpull a stock 4440.

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a puller

03-17-2004 19:26:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to G-MAN, 03-17-2004 15:35:36  
I believe that it shouldn't go over 2000 rpm, but I dont' think its out of the question to run a tractor between 1800 and 2000rpm...I mean...have YOU ever seen or even heard of a JD flywheel comeing appart?? these were built solid, and can take it.. We like to feel the vibration to let us know the limit..and then we run it there....and you know what...there is power to be gained because our A runs more at a high rpm on the dyno then at a low rpm....

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G-MAN

03-19-2004 10:47:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to a puller, 03-17-2004 19:26:09  
I haven't heard of one coming apart, but that gets back to the "yet" situation. I've certainly seen cracked and otherwise damaged flywheels on two-bangers that I wouldn't trust at STOCK rpm, let alone twice that fast. It's a matter of personal opinion, but I don't think proving somebody wrong about how fast a Deere can run is worth potentially killing someone.



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a puller

03-16-2004 20:23:39




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 Re: JD rpm?? in reply to r's..., 03-15-2004 20:02:11  
I would say the 7 1/4 one tractor would be ok @1800rpm and the 9" would be good at 1400. I haven't built one as big as 9", but do have one at 7.25....



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Mr Tinker

03-16-2004 18:03:46




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 Re: JD rpm?? in reply to r's..., 03-15-2004 20:02:11  
I have "done the math".....you will be dead befor you see 2,000 RPM.



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a puller

03-16-2004 19:33:28




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 Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to Mr Tinker, 03-16-2004 18:03:46  
with I JD G or A stock stroke, I can 100% guarentee you we have had them at least up to 1800, if not 2200 rpm....I will have to buy a tach someday and show a picture..... think about it....a JD late A runs 1100 about, and then when you double spring it, it runs about 1400, and thas not rappin at all....I have yet to see and my grandpa and uncles and dad have yet to see a JD flywheel come apart. Lemme ask you this, how many RPM will a JD A that is ported and polished and has a set of .045 pistons in it rap with no govornor or throttle level limit until it levels out and won't rap no more???we had one do this, and it never came apart..... .....

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G-MAN

03-17-2004 10:20:38




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 Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to a puller, 03-16-2004 19:33:28  
The key word in your post is "yet". There were a lot of guys that made a lot of passes running top-fuel cars before the first flywheel came apart and took some guy's feet off. Nobody had seen that happen "yet" either. I guess you have to decided whether pulling a little farther and looking "cool" is worth the possibility of severely injuring or killing yourself or others...



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a puller

03-17-2004 19:15:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to G-MAN, 03-17-2004 10:20:38  
I just dont' think that a JD shouldn't be able to run 2000rpm and have to be ridiculed because its a "CRAZY" rpm number....shoot...its only 2x the rpm stock...it sounds like a lot, but really...its not considering my grandfather farmed for years with his A double springed....I dunno, it just rubs me wrong. I understand the safety issue 100%, but there's a line where people are just stupid about what they make there rules for...but, I guess there are those few that are dumb enough to put a stroked tractor up really high on rpm's....and the only reason the 7.25 A ran that many rpm is because the throttle linkage came out....

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buickanddeere

03-17-2004 21:11:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to a puller, 03-17-2004 19:15:08  
Double the rpm and forces increase to four times the stock levels. A stroker increases loading even more. Strength after welding and/or maching undersize rod throws is suspect.



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John

03-16-2004 14:27:02




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 Re: JD rpm?? in reply to r's..., 03-15-2004 20:02:11  
I really wish people would think about the flywheels before they start defeating and modifing the governor. I most cases the flywheel will kill you far sooner than a rod will break! I would never exceed 125% on a cast flywheel. Even that is pushing your luck and everyone else's safety. If you are going to have a solid steel flywheel made then I would agree with your RPM numbers. Otherwise subtract 500 RPM.

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G-MAN

03-16-2004 07:37:33




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 Re: JD rpm?? in reply to r's..., 03-15-2004 20:02:11  
Do you really think that a stock cast-iron flywheel that was designed to operate at around 1000 rpm is going to be safe at 2000 rpm? The force is squared when RPM is doubled.



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70 PLOWBOY

03-16-2004 08:42:35




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 Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to G-MAN, 03-16-2004 07:37:33  
I know i wouldnt want to be anywere neer it 1500 rpm would be scarey enough ouch



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a puller

03-16-2004 19:27:21




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 Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to 70 PLOWBOY, 03-16-2004 08:42:35  
well, then you wouldn't want to go pullin in our area, because 2000 rpm with a stock crank and aluminum pistons isn't uncommon at all, many are more!! I just don't know if a 7 1/4" crank would hold up that high...:S...the flywheel ain't the problem, it's the rods and crank and the governor that fly appart....



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Drive on, fool...........

03-17-2004 16:08:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to a puller, 03-16-2004 19:27:21  
Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't----it's just a matter of time before there's a major loss of life at some pull because of people running antique tractors at idiotic and extremely unsafe RPM levels---and when, not if, it does, you won't be able to buy ANY insurance for a tractor pull. You puller types better start thinking about that.



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a puller

03-17-2004 19:21:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to Drive on, fool..........., 03-17-2004 16:08:18  
maybe if dumb-sses wouldn't try to run a tractor that is stoked to 8" at that rpm..then there wouldn't be that problem..a JD doesn't have a flywheel problem, its a crank problem....Ive been around JD's too long to not know what it can take....and I personally would like to see a flywheel that has came appart at a pull UNDER 2000rpm's....that wasn't already cracked from stress in the casting...You call me a fool???it's because of people like you that just go by what they hear and havent tried anything or watched closely at numbers that make these stupid rules, and it's people that ran FARMALLS and OLIVERS that made the JD's suffer too, because they tried to run a 6" or some major stroke at 3000 or 4000 rpms and got people killed!! get some stuff strait before you go calling people fools....and if you have them strait, then so be it...I guess I am, but until then..... ..please don't call me that

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Whoa there, pal

03-17-2004 19:33:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to a puller, 03-17-2004 19:21:05  
I was speaking in generalities, not attacking the JD guys, though some of them scare me---guys bragging about turning stroked "G"s 3500 rpm. Could be just talk, but I wouldn't put it past someone. I agree, someone buzzing the non-JD's at 4000+ rpms are the people who are going to kill some folks when the flywheel bursts or the clutch saws the tractor in half.

I'll say one other thing--while it's obvious that I don't have much use for antique tractor pulling, people are going to do it. My concern is how antique tractors and events will be perceived after one of these thing blows up and kills some people---the reaction won't be a good one, and the lawyers and insurance companies will make us ALL pay the price for immature personalities who care not about the hobby as a whole but will do anything to win a 2-buck trophy.

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a puller

03-17-2004 20:23:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD rpm?? in reply to Whoa there, pal, 03-17-2004 19:33:06  
sorry to kinda get carries away..I jsut got readin all the posts and the more I read..the more I got fired up....I 100% understand where your coming from, I jsut think some people over do it. i'm with you on this...I dont' know what is going through some people's heads that would turn a stroked G at 3500...thas an accident waiting to happen.....the only point that I have tried to get across is that a flywheel at 2000 is not the weak point..it's the crank. and then I jsut get frustraited when people say MORE about how crazy I am withe a stock flywheel at 1500-2000....I dunno...I'm jsut tired and love tractor pulling...sorry to be a bit hostile with you, and the other pullers..... .thanks alot, and be safe....a puller

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