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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

NATPA members board please help

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Paul

02-15-2004 13:08:45




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Natpa has done, in my opinion, awonderfull job getting and keeping pulling fair and competetive among any and all weight classes and tractor Makes. I will not even go into div 5 problems My issue arises on the rpm limit on the JD D A g jd has had a substantial raise in limit from 975 rpm to 1227(div 2&3)but aD has had to stay at 1080rpm.The G has had a 25% increase where the D is setting at 10%.But bothwere tested at nebraska at virtually same horsepower. the is already at a disadvantage because of short wheel base and shorter rear tires. Now i know someone is going to say yes butthe 70and 720 is adecendant of the g hence the rpm increase. But is the R(1325 rpm) not a decendant of the d. I know they were built at same time but the R started as a diesel D and shared common engine layout( crank is same width as is bore spacing. If your objective is to see a diversified pulling field this may deserve some thought. if heaven forbid the D's start kicking A-- you could always slow them down a bit. Paul Ps I really know of one guy that has ever realy pulled a d at a natpa event

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RB

02-15-2004 18:05:26




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 Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Paul, 02-15-2004 13:08:45  
The rpm. percentage is all wrong. A low rpm. tractor gets the shaft! At 10% a 1000 rpm. tractor of course gets 1100 rpm. and a 1800 rpm. tractor get 1980 rpm. a difference of 880 rpm!!! I would like to see something like this; lets start with a medium, say 1500, for every 100 below that you would get 5%, thats 25% or a total of 1250 and for every 100 over you would loose 5% or in this case 15% for a total of 1630 rpm. Now that's only 380 rpm. Looks fair to me. Lets here some more on this guys!

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Jeff

02-15-2004 20:39:14




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 Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to RB, 02-15-2004 18:05:26  
Now don't quote me on the exact RPM's here because i am not sure it will be that close but here goes. Making all of them run the same RPM is not fair at all. Look at them together. I John Deere G will make about 45 hp at say 1100 rpm and was rated for 3-4 plows. It also has like 400+cubic inches stock. An Oliver 88 will make about the same hp but it is running at 1600 rpm stock with 235 or so cubic inches.

So if you make them both run at 1500 RPM then you have a JD that gets 400 rpm more and a substansial hp increase. The Oliver however will drop 200 rpm and have a pretty good drop in hp as well. Now taking both of these tractors both of them stock from the factory one will pull real close to what the other will.

Now I don't agree with giving say the WD's the same base HP as the D-17's because theyare different tractors. If someone wants to use the D-17 Rpms as a base then they need to pull a D-17 instead of a WD. Heck you can put a 1600 Oliver block into a 88, does that means that you can start with the 1600 base RPM because that is what replaced the 88 series? Cause if so then instead of 1600 you start at about 2475 or so. I also don't think that a G should start at the RPM's of say a 720 or 730. Sure that is what replaced it but that is not what it is.

And don't read into the brands mentioned here. I have and Oliver and a farmall and a Deere that we pull. I read on here about the A-C's so i remembered that one. Deeres are designed for low RPM high torque where as the others are designed for higher rpms and lower torque.

If the RPMs for a Deere are raised to what the Farmalls and MM and olivers are running then can we go to a 400- cunic inch engine like the deere has and keep it all in div 2? That would keep everything even wouldn't it?

Just a thought

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Wild Horses

02-16-2004 10:54:53




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 Re: Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Jeff, 02-15-2004 20:39:14  
You guys aren't considering the whole picture.
I realize you "professionals" might blow that kind of money on a tractor, but unless a tractor is built specifically for a specific RPM, all they are realy gaining is ground speed, which is canceled out by speed limits. When the tractor pulls down, it'll fall into it's RPM range regardless and hang there. At best, higher RPM is just delaying the enivitable(sp).
And besides, as it's been pointed out several times before, the real big thing in pulling is torque and this goes back to the tractor falling into it's range. Yeah, I try to run as much RPM, as possible, but if an Oliver gets 2100 and I only get 2080, I don't complain. They're different motor types and its not really an advantage.
If you want to talk about advantages/disadvantages, there are better subjects. Besides who said the world was fair. You just do the best with what you got.
Ya know, there are guys who try to find loopholes and pick a tractor that can take advantage of the rules. But most guys pull Farmall or Oliver, or whatever, because that's what they grew up with or have. That's the difference between going to a pull for fun and going to win. And tell me this are any of you "winners" making money at this. If you are, let me know how.

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Jeff

02-17-2004 15:21:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Wild Horses, 02-16-2004 10:54:53  
hehe hey wild your right. I pull an Oliver because I like the looks, An Oliver was the first toy tractor I ever had, and mainly cause my last name is Oliver so it just kinda figures..LOL!!!! I pull farm stock with a tractor that i bought from a working farm, I changed the tires,wheels, hitch and added wheelie bars for safety and have a ball!!! I will be the first to say I have definatly lost more money than I will ever make at if but the companionship and comradary is great!

YOu got the right idea, pull for fun and enjoy a saturday off of work:)

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dctom

02-16-2004 11:22:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Wild Horses, 02-16-2004 10:54:53  
NEVER WAS SAID ANY BETTER WILD



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Bill

02-15-2004 14:53:01




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 Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Paul, 02-15-2004 13:08:45  

I your looking for fair your looking in the wrong place. If one tractor gets updated rpms all should. The UB and U MM is the exact same engine as the 5 Star but you dont see them getting 5 Star rpms in anything but Div 5 and never will because the board is anything but fair.



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Remember Bill

02-16-2004 17:53:04




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 Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Bill, 02-15-2004 14:53:01  
Just remember big Bill the members vote on the rules not the board, or are you another one that stands back and points fingers?



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Bill

02-16-2004 21:03:59




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 Re: Re: Re: NATPA members board please help in reply to Remember Bill, 02-16-2004 17:53:04  

A vote does little good when the board overides it with what it "feels" is best for the sport and no one can deny that it has happend before and will continue to happen. This is why i dont belong to NATPA and dont plan to in the future. I go to a few pulls when i can and i run by there rules doesent make it right though its just a pleasant diversion in the middle of winter.



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