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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

What do you think?

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Proposed Divisi

12-04-2003 10:46:57




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Tractors 1963 and older Classes: 3500, 3750, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, 6000, 6500, 7500, and 8500# 1. General Rules - See general rules that apply to all tractors.
2. Age: Drivers must be 16 years of age or older. Those under 18 years of age must have written parental/guardian permission.
3. Safety: All tractors must have a working safety kill switch. Ladder bars, wide front ends, fenders, use of seat belts and use of rev limiters are highly recommend. All Div V tractors will have a 3/8 inch steel plate over the flywheel and clutch housing or a an approved scatter safety blanket may be used. Steel flywheels are highly recommended. 4. Draw Bar: Draw bar must not exceed 20 inches in height or be less than 18 inches from center of wheel axle to hooking point. No part of draw bar may extend rearward beyond point of hook. Draw bars must be stationary in all directions. No clevises. Top of hitch adjuster cannot be above center line of axle or hub.
5. Weights: Weights must not extend rearward beyond rear tires and cannot be more than 11 feet from the center of the rear axle to the furthest point forward.
6. Tires & Rims: Tire size maximum 18.4 X 38 or equal size footprint. Any rim width. No radial tires. No steel lug wheels. Two wheel drive only. No duals. Any cut allowed on tires.
7. RPM�s: Rpm�s allowed will be 3000 RPM�s for all 4 and 6 cylinder engines. 2000 RPM�s max for all 2 cylinder engines. Must have side shields of at least .060" metal and a scatter blanket. Enhanced electrical systems permitted in all classes. Rev limiters are allowed. All tractors must have a positive throttle stop with fully operational governor. Sled will be equipped with a memory tachometer. All tractors must be equipped with a tachometer sensor and connector furnished by the tractor owner. A track official will check the memory tachometer at the end of each pull. If the memory tachometer is not working due to the tractor sensor or wiring or tachometer value or RPM is in question, tractor RPM will be checked with a hand held tachometer. If RPM is found over the tractor will be disqualified. A tech official at there option, may use an association owned tachometer to check the tractor at any time (before, after or during the pull).

8. Speed: Any gear, any speed. Shifting of TA�s allowed. The 50� marker will also be used as the mark to stop the tractor if driver wishes to restart pull.
9. Engine: Tractors must be naturally aspirated. No turbos or blowers - except two stroke GM diesels. Maximum of 6 cylinders.
10. Tractors must have stock frame, transmission, rear ends and axle housing for that brand of tractor. Front axles must be safe, sturdy and similar to stock with a stock wheel base. Crank cases must bolt to transmission in a stock appearing manner, be of the same manufacturer as the original crank case. Heads, blocks (jugs), manifolds must be of the same manufacturer as the crank case or that of a recognized replacement manufacturer.
11. Any updraft agricultural type carburetor will be allowed. Diesels must have the injection pump in the stock location. Diesel tractors may be converted to gas as long as they use gas heads and comply with all the other Division V rules.
12. Any integral plates, girdles or reinforcement devices that enhance the engine rigidity and improve safety will be allowed. Deck plates can be no thicker than 1" material; girdles can be no thicker than 1" material; spacer plates can be no thicker than 2" combined.

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a puller

12-05-2003 18:53:52




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
I agree alot with paul. I feel taht the JD's are getting screwed though...I have had a JD G that is up around 10:1 compression and an A that was around 12:1 compressoin turn at least 3000 rpm, with all stock components, except the A is stroked minor. The A we actually had it up around 3500 rpm before stuff inside started to come apart. so a JD is kinda screwed in this rpm deal. If there was either a no rpm limit and scatter blankets were required or a sheild of some sort, it would be good. THe other option is I have these M&W dyno chart at no load rpm's and that stuff, and you could go by that all the way up to the 1970's tractors like the JD 30 series. you could do a calculated 30% over or whatever..but it would all be checked.

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wah,wah

12-04-2003 18:12:14




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
once you STILL can't compete, you'll whine and carry on for changes again!! either compete or quit!!



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TimC

12-05-2003 06:35:56




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 Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to wah,wah, 12-04-2003 18:12:14  
Hey Arnold! Hey Hugh!
Hey mike
Hey no name, whats up. Go ahead and use your real name if you want your opinion heard.

BE A MAN.



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wah, wah

12-05-2003 09:13:51




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 Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to TimC , 12-05-2003 06:35:56  
YOU build something, YOU pull it, then YOU tell us what it's like/how it's done...not YOU watching your buddies spend money/sweat/tears, then YOU act like the expert! Talk about keyboard experts; YOU seem to want to always stir things up...



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TimC

12-05-2003 16:23:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to wah, wah, 12-05-2003 09:13:51  
It would serve no purpose to prove to you what i can do, have done, don't want to do. But for anyone else interested you can check out fullpullmotorsprots.com at antiques, last picture on the right at the bottom. You get a free look at several hundred hours work and me. Now post your name and picture Mister 216.138.36.XX NO NAME . Duke built Randy Heads "Under Pressure" but I made it run. Ask Jack Bunyard if it runs better now than at Columbia. Randy is at Tunica and anyone can ask him if I am telling the truth. I don't mind sticking my name out there whether he pulls good or not. Tomorrow will tell. Win or loose so what. What's the name of your tractor. I wonder if you ever built or pulled anything. I never called my self an expert. You started that.
So there you go. Whats it going to be. Make Illinois proud and stand up for what you believe in and be proud of who and what you are. Let the world know your name and what your tractor is and what you did to it.

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Headed Downhill

12-08-2003 11:06:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to TimC, 12-05-2003 16:23:51  
Man, you're right TimC that tractor sure is good looking, until you get a chain hooked up to it!! Sure would be nice to be able to keep a head gasket in it so that we could all see the amazing power that YOU are SUPPOSEDLY building! Maybe you and Chad need to consult with each other about one of his "high performance" head gaskets!



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wah, wah

12-05-2003 18:42:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to TimC, 12-05-2003 16:23:51  
ALL engine builders, look out, TIMC is the master builder (yes, master builder, not....), anyways, I bet Duke would disagree regarding this "running better". Why does Jack take his Oliver back to Duke and not you? The Under Pressure tried Colombia, Mo I think once....yes, once, and that's all it took to see the 'ol sled pulled kinda hard!



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ChadS

12-05-2003 19:47:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to wah, wah, 12-05-2003 18:42:28  
Every dog has it's day,, just because someone has an off day at the track does not mean that the engine builder is to blame,, sounds like operator error to me, Ol Tim has got something up his sleeve,, but he don't have to prove anything to anyone but himself. Win lose or draw,, Tim knows what he is doing,, and people like him are rare to be nice enough to share info the way he does,, until no talent, jealous people, tear him down and ticks people off. What do you pull or watch pull? Let's hear what you got,,, he put his talents on the table,, lets see what you got,, if ya got something,, you would have no problem telling us all here what it is,, heck,, you maybe famous or something. Dude,, lighten up,, not very many people as nice as us here on YT,, we all get along here, We talk pulling,, success, or not,, first time pullers, right down to the pros,, either join the fun,, or stay off!!! Just my opinion,, And hey.,,, You can bash me all you want,, don't care,, not the first time,, won't be the last, King Kong ain't got nothing on me,, Don't belive me? Just ask the good folks here.. ChadS

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wah, wah

12-05-2003 19:58:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to ChadS, 12-05-2003 19:47:16  
I'd be worrying about those BIG JD B's that been stomping 'ol something weirder!! That is funny!! B's beating this tough H! Lemmon's never has had that happen!! Better send something weirder to TIMMYC!!



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ChadS

12-05-2003 20:09:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to wah, wah, 12-05-2003 19:58:00  
No complaints here,, Ol lemmons got his a$$ stomped at Waseon last week,, S oyou otta talk about something you know about instad of running your trap to the guys who know what they are doing,,, the ones who actually own tractors.. ChadS



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ChadS

12-05-2003 20:15:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you th in reply to ChadS, 12-05-2003 20:09:20  
Like I said,, operator error,, I asked you,, where is your name in the top 3? in your dreams? HA HA HA HA HA, My concern is not the JD B,, they earned it,, if you ever seen them,, anyone would be impressed,, Hooked up and out the door, My concern is a Oliver 77 with a 1855 engine in it,, Ain't scared of that,, just wait n see, At least I have a tractor who everyone knows it's name,, what about you?

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Fact

12-05-2003 10:33:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to wah, wah, 12-05-2003 09:13:51  
Your post name sure fits you!! If you want to support the NATPA and all there ways that's your business, you just get down on your knees and kiss there a$$. I myself prefer not to go there but, there is something you could do for me while you are down on your knees. BLOW ME!



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Paul

12-04-2003 16:25:54




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
Why stop at 3000 rpms or 2000.the cheapest way to make horse power is via rpms. example an oliver 88 can be made into nearly 600( billet crank custom rods etc.,etc.) cubic inch and with enough money will probably live at 3000 rpm but it will cost dearly to build and maintain, probably not for good ol boy on abudget.now take same oliver 88 build maybe 400 cubes( 880 crank with mildstroke, 4.25" pistons 77 rods),maybe 450 now turn it 5000-6000 rpm whole nother ball game, considerably cheaper to build and probably more reliable. withproper safty equipment( blankets and scatter sheilds)it would be as safe as a drag racethey turn upwards of 10,000 rpm( and a thousand horse) with the public as close as tractor pulling.just my thoughts Paul

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ChadS

12-04-2003 14:42:11




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
That is the old div 5 rules,, Here is my thoughts,, People use newer parts on older tractors,, Like 450 engines and such in Ms, D-17 in WC,, The rearend issue would be open for discussion,, Since most use newer parts,, why not use older parts from the tractors predicessors? Like this,,, Farmall H and W4, to the Super H and SW4,, tot he 300-350 then to the 460,, the early 460 was a 6cyl 350 rearend. So,, my opinion is,, if it fits,, and safely operates,, and can prove that no custom,, or aluminum is used,, It should be allowed. I had a change of heart,, I am still for having stock frames and rearends,, but,,,, since everyone lets it go,, and if ya can't beat em,, join em,,, ChadS

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A.P.

12-04-2003 12:11:39




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
I could have fun with those rules as long as you don't throw me out for "following" them. I should even be able to put something together that will have a chance to keep up with the big Molines & Cases even with them running at 3000 rpm.

A.P.
Dreaming of a Detroit Diesel for Christmas.



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Fun for Everyone

12-04-2003 12:59:47




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 Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to A.P., 12-04-2003 12:11:39  
That's the whole idea! What all the clickies guys cry there eyes out. The idea is to have a class for everyone not just the board of directors.



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C'mon

12-04-2003 11:25:51




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 Re: What do you think? in reply to Proposed Division 5 Rules, 12-04-2003 10:46:57  
XNATPA, you got something up your sleeve! Become NATPA, then propose rules, otherwise, stay xnatpa!



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Fruitless Effort

12-04-2003 12:56:15




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 Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to C'mon, 12-04-2003 11:25:51  
Why would I join NATPA and propose rules when you know your going to get screwed over anyway? It won't make any difference if your going to let the same cronies run the show. I have been there and done that. If NATPA wants my money they will have to change first, they had there chance. Don't hold your breath waiting for me to join. XNATPA



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hey crybaby

12-04-2003 13:06:03




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 Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to Fruitless Effort, 12-04-2003 12:56:15  
Go vote! Cronies don't make the rules,voters do. Rules on safety are the only rules controlled by elected officals.



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Not True

12-04-2003 13:35:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to hey crybaby, 12-04-2003 13:06:03  
Ask Bill Birch how many voters that got to vote on the RPM changes that gave the Allis the RPM advantage that they still get today. I know one of the few that got to vote on it and he was the president at the time!! Funny he pulls a WC. I know I was a member when they stuck that one up everybody's bunger! Crooked does. Crooked is. I think you need to wake up and smell the roses if you really think voters have any fair say. The only say they are going to give you is something that's not going to have any effect on themselves.

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WRONG

12-04-2003 14:13:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to Not True, 12-04-2003 13:35:57  
There are NO RPM advantages for WC's in Div. III or IV, only in Div. V do they get d-17 rpms. The post above is correct though, if you have a problem with the rules, come out and vote! People on here always talk from behind their keyboards about other people's tractors, now the popular bashing topic is (right or wrong) the leading antique tractor pulling organization. Maybe there needs to be online voting for those that are to lazy to come out and vote on the rules!

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Fact Is:

12-04-2003 18:47:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to WRONG, 12-04-2003 14:13:39  
Its a free world. You support NATPA if you want to. I did, now I don't and I won't. Fact is the association to belong to and support is the one that you don't hear all this bitching and gripping on boards like this. I don't even have to name the good association that's got its act together as you know which one is. It's the one to pull with. It has the honest people behind it and running it. You don't see there name in the several past bitching strings do you! Hmmm I wonder why? Let the readers be the judge. If thats not enough go pull with both of them and let them see for themselves. I have pulled with both of them and for sure they are two differnt programs. All any puller wants is a fair chance.

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ChadS

12-04-2003 14:23:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to WRONG, 12-04-2003 14:13:39  
Why would a tractor,, that was built in the 50's be allowed to run the same rpms,, that a tractor that was built in the 60's? I can yell you this much,, in the NATPA.. A H can't run 350 utility rpms!!! If Birch wanted to level the playing field,, he would have made rpms changes for ALL tractor makes,, not just the Allis. Jusy my opinion,, ChadS



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exactly

12-05-2003 00:16:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do you think? in reply to ChadS, 12-04-2003 14:23:41  
shove that RPM chart up any board members yang who says it is fair for all, if that is how those ya-whos' have got to win let them pull alone

make it fair for all or get rid of it
those wing-nuts are board members for a reason, they are all politcal salesmen out for themselves and could care if they ruin it for all because they set the rules, get beat and quit, leaving a mess for others


Keith

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