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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Minimum cyl wall thickness

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Flogger

11-07-2003 06:40:57

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What should the minimum cyl wall thickness be on an M-450 block?

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11-09-2003 13:19:29

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Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to Flogger, 11-07-2003 06:40:57

Don't worry about the cyl pressure damaging the cyl. .125 is plenty the damage comes from mechanical interfernece , like piston thrust,etc. .125 gray iron has a tensile strength way beyond the cyl. pressure ever created in an engine, yes even that of a diesel. the limit on a cyl. wall would be .125 for me,and as the bore got bigger and the parts moving in it got heavy I would got thicker.

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TimC

11-07-2003 06:45:58

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Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to Flogger, 11-07-2003 06:40:57

My opinion is .125 standard motors. On a very high compression you would need some support behind a .125.

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11-07-2003 09:02:51

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Re: Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to TimC, 11-07-2003 06:45:58

Whats "very high compression"? Building a 450 block. How far can I safely go out with out CONSTANTLY worring about getting hot? Flogger, I read some posts from '01 when you were building a motor. Was thinking about going similar to the way you did, just for a started motor..thanks for input..... ..AC

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Flogger

11-07-2003 09:30:45

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Re: Re: Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to AC, 11-07-2003 09:02:51

As far as compression I figure anything over 200 psi cranking is high. The walls on a stock block appear to be pretty thick, 1/4-5/16 inch. Still when you go big you weaken the left side of the block and the high compression only aggravates it. If you run a sleeve you have to bore and weaken the block that much more. I'm sure that's why the really big motors have the bore centers offset to the right.

If I were starting from scratch I think I'd limit the bore to 4.25 and not run a sleeve. You can still run the stock headgasket and that's a plus. You can make some extra inches with the crank.

Good luck!

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TimC

11-07-2003 13:07:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to Flogger, 11-07-2003 09:30:45

Everything depends on who you talk to but I can give you some for-instances.

An allis with 6.100 stroke and 4.5 bore and cranking compression around 275 will hold. You should see one unstyled wc with 390 ci at Princeton.

I have noticed some concern from my machinist friend about a 6 cyl IH with 5.625 stroke and 4.75 bore running .125 sleeves if the compression is going to be up around 275 or more.
The deck height quite possibly is longer on a 450 than the allis block. A long unsupported sleeve with a large bore would also play a large role in failure or success.

I wouldn,t want to run a JD with a big bore at that cyl thickness and too much compression because it would probably distort. Aside from the fact that a big bore 2 cyl wouldn't run well at low RPMs from what I have heard on this board.

The differance in what I see and what you may be working with is where the block has been bored out
to accept the sleeves then the sleeves are welded in and the block decked. Also a few inches of concrete in the bottom to stabilize the cyl.

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11-07-2003 19:11:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to TimC, 11-07-2003 13:07:04

OK, but I am curious as to how much trouble and money it would cost to move the cylinders over to the left side of the block...I have heard of 5" bore M's. Is that how they did it? AC

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TimC

11-08-2003 19:00:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Minimum cyl wall thickness in reply to AC, 11-07-2003 19:11:18

I couldn't answer that as I have not had the pleasure of looking into one of those. Shifting bores in differant directions is not rocket science but would require some talent.

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