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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Horse power craze for pulling

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Frank in WV

08-16-2003 06:43:54




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Not to cause an up roar on this board but what is the big issue with horsepower in tractor pulling? What ever happened to the factor of hooking up to a sled with a plain tractor that at the most has 10% over the factory manufactured horsepower? Call me old fashioned but I would much rather watch tractors rolled in from the field after a days work hooking to the sled to see who is the best vs watching a tractor rated for 30hp cranking out 70hp because the heads have been shaved, overbored etc. For those that wish to pull with all these modifications so be it! I congratulate your mechanical prowress, but please don't enter these hopped up tractors into an antique farm stock class. I guess there just needs to be another catgory of pulling added for original unaltered so those of us who wish to keep our equipment near original may compete on an even track.

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ChadS

08-18-2003 12:34:24




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
This is why there are speed limits and division classes. Most pulls have local classes so that the "pure stock" tractors can pull against other pure stock tractors. Almost all club members who regularly pull have enhanced or modified their tractors, to be competitve. we all know it, its called competition. I enjoy farm stock tractor pulling, that how I got started in pulling. A 1954 Farmall SH that my dad bought for me when I was 12 years old, Been pulling it ever since. I rebuilt the engine, 3-9/16 bore firecrater pistons. It already had the high compression head from the factory. Other than carb and governor work, its stock. Other people did not think so, So one night after a pull, we got protested for having a modified tractor in a stock class, I pulled the head off it right then and there, they seen for themselves. Anyway, as far as whether stock or not stock I look at it like this, Take Farmall for example, You could order the tractor from the dealer, you could order different engine options like high altitude pistons, high compression heads, upgrades the factory offered the customers, during the production years. M&W changed everything when they offered their engine options. "High Power" kits Everything from crankshafts to pistons. IH in our area at the time sold these parts to customers as IH parts. Most tractors sold when they were new were "Bacic models" Low HP ratings, Over the years, farmers needed more HP to work in the fields, instead of buying a different tractor, they had M&W kits installed to increase power. If I was to go to an auction, Lets say there was 5 M Farmalls for sale, I bought all of them, took them home and tore them apart, 3 out the 5 would possibly have M&Ws and the others might be flat top 3-7/8 bore, depends on what year or the prefixes on the serial number tag identify. I consider all of the above "Farm Stock" Tractor with aftermarket strokers, Big bore and HP, are modified, Its obvious when a modified tractor pulls down the track. Just as it obvious to notice a farm stock tractor pull, Thats why there is speed limits, and division classes at the pulls. So everyone has a class to pull. Just my opinion, ChadS

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Jack

08-18-2003 10:45:55




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
I enhanced mine a little to compensate for them power tracks.I play strictly by the rules,drawbar hight,length,weights extended from the center of rear axle.Our tracks vary from sand,gravel,clay and I don't always need all that power but we do have pulls that have a hard to pull sled.



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dctom

08-18-2003 09:14:18




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
very intresting comments, i always figured horse powere dont count unless you run out,if you do, than you dont have enough,



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REDMAN

08-17-2003 19:15:21




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
that is your oppinion and you have a right to it,but if everyone felt that way their would be no NTPA or OUTLAW series pulls.i'm personally a pure pulling fan and puller,i pull open classes at the fairs,but i watch everything,the only thing that gets me going at the pulls are the hot-rodders in the pits,now those guys should be banned for operating any kind of motorized equipment!



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MM

08-17-2003 14:48:56




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
I kind of believe in the rule run what you brung but play by our rules!!!



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Chuck NH

08-17-2003 14:02:56




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
I guess if they can work in the field all day long and remain dependable, guess they could be considered stock. Seen alot of "stock" tractor's that wouldn't last a couple hours plowing. But truely think if it's not in the parts book, it's not stock. Just my 2 cents..... ..



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Spec-tater

08-17-2003 14:47:56




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 Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Chuck NH, 08-17-2003 14:02:56  
I enjoy watching all classes of pulls but can't appreciate the glory some pullers get from stripping everything from the PTO shaft to the radiator cap to qualify for a lighter class. I've always had more respect for the sixth grader that cleaned house on the senior rather than vise-versa



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Shaggy

08-17-2003 12:54:05




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
What is stock? I jumped my super up my super up 20cid. when I rebuilt it. Granted you guys are talking a whole lot more than 20 cubes. But that was the kit that was offered so I bought it and as far as heads go I picked up a utilty head and it has 1.60 intake valves and about 1.40 exhaust valves and port the sizes of golf balls. Its all IH stuff. So is it stock?



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buickanddeere

08-17-2003 03:07:07




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
On loose limestone tracks the extra wheel speed can help. Only clay power tracks the extra HP means less. It is entertaining to watch some souped up want to be hero spin out in 3rd gear at mid track. Then watch someone with a bone stock tractor in 1st gear but with perfect weight balance & tire psi, lugging down but making a full pull. Then the 3rd gear puller goes and accuses the winner of cheating...

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REDMAN

08-17-2003 19:08:38




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 Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to buickanddeere, 08-17-2003 03:07:07  
what are you talking about?it sounds as if you heard someone talking about tracks but are not sure what is what.a loose track don't like high power but a power track is the flip of the coin,it will take everything you can give it and most times that is not enough.perhaps your tracks are not the same as our power tracks,but here sometimes 1000 hp is not enough.



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buickanddeere

08-17-2003 19:32:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to REDMAN, 08-17-2003 19:08:38  
I'm saying as long as there is enough HP to spin out in 1st, worry about traction and balance. Building extra power and not concentrating on getting it to the ground is foolish.



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REDMAN

08-18-2003 21:43:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to buickanddeere, 08-17-2003 19:32:59  
i agree if you can't use the power you have to leave the engine alone,but for the most part i have found few tracks that you cannot use more power,what i pull is a little different but pulling is pulling and power is a major part of it.the 560 is now able to pull and i think next year the 4010 can pull,the best running NTPA tractors are still running engines that came out in 1971 so where will that leave the tractors from earlier vintage?i think it is a very serious issue as every class has a following,if you take out the old tractors you will lose part of the people that like to watch them.

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buickanddeere

08-19-2003 15:13:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to REDMAN, 08-18-2003 21:43:29  
A ground speed rule will have to be used to keep the old stock tractors competative with the built up and later higher HP tractors.



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Tim

08-16-2003 20:04:44




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
The only problem I see with banning the high horse add ons is: What about the poor old farmer who has done a lot of the mods( milled head, overbored, high octane fuel, oversize tires, etc)and still uses the tractor to farm with? I am not sure of the horsepower our Super M is making but I know it pulls a 14 ft chisel decent and a 24 ft springtooth great. I have milled the head as much as the machine shop would mill it, changed the pistons to the high altitude overbore set, am running 100 octane gas with a w9 carb, changed over to 18.4 X 38 tires, and added live hydralics. It was cheaper to do that than to buy a larger tractor. Our only problem has been with overheating if it gets low on water or oil at all, cured that with automatic shutoff to keep from hurting the engine. Should I be banned from antique pulls?

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Fan and puller

08-16-2003 14:55:05




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
i also like to watch these farm stock pulls...i believe that they should be allowed to run over bore kits and things a farmer might have put on their tractor...or have certain hp limits...like an H can run as much HP as the most powerful STOCK tractor in its class....i like watchin tires slide, front ends raise, and farmers locking down on them brakes..then watch them go to the side lines and ask their buddies who put ur differential locks in etc. etc.

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Agent Orange

08-16-2003 13:50:23




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
I agree!! But it is still a ton o fun to out pull a "hot rod" with a "stocker". Our group is more or less a club so the stand offish part doesn't apply. We have a prety nice group of guys and girls with a good mix of tractors, both stock and not so stock. Come on down to the SATPA pull any time!



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G-MAN

08-16-2003 07:03:08




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 Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to Frank in WV, 08-16-2003 06:43:54  
I kind of wonder that myself. I too would rather watch a farm stock pull than outlaw-type pulling, more often than not. When you start figuring the dollars most of the tractors have in them, it gets a little less interesting. I guess most guys would just rather win with a full pull than by only pulling 200 feet, regardless if they beat the next tractor by the same amount. It seems as though guys are getting more into making other guys look bad, than just having fun and doing the best they can. When I pull, I generally consider myself to be competing against the sled and the track, rather than the other guys. One thing I've noticed at the antique pulls I've been to, is that the pullers seem to be more standoffish, and stick to their own, rather than mingling around together. You'll see two trailers parked on opposite sides of an otherwise empty parking area. At most of the farm pulls I go to, everybody kind of gathers in one big group, and you see competitors throwing weights for each other, and helping each other out. Where I come from, tractor pulls are social events. At most of the antique pulls I've been to, the guys treat it as a job. Drive to the pull, unload, pull, load up and go home. I don't think I'll ever pull at many sanctioned antique pulls - the farm pulls are a lot more fun.

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a puller

08-16-2003 09:47:48




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 Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to G-MAN, 08-16-2003 07:03:08  
is what needs to happen is a speed limit and no cut tires, or just allo the cuts since a good set of road wore tires would out class them, but they couldn't cut the front edge. if you have a good enforced 3mph speed limit, then it would work good since a G can exceed it easily with a string on the govorner. there is a good setup for pulling that is here in michigan, evart. It has no rpm or horsepower limit, but no cut tires and it has a a 2.8mph limit the first night that has a 1952 and older antique with a flag that you can't tough, and a wheel that you can't fall behind of. its visual so you dont' have to worry about the horn not being on. the 2nd night is just farm stock and has I believe a 4.0mph limit.

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supermpuller4

08-17-2003 10:41:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to a puller, 08-16-2003 09:47:48  
A Puller is right a speed limit will even things out if you keep speed under 3mph every one has a chance to win.There are thousands of M to 450 IH running MW cranks and pistons that work in the field for years, they problaby run augers and and other light field work now, are going to ban these tractors from pulling?



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Buzzman72

08-18-2003 05:49:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Horse power craze for pulling in reply to supermpuller4, 08-17-2003 10:41:13  
I'm with you on this one. I grew up working in a family farm equipment business, and our shop turned out some stuff that would kick sand in the face of a "pure" stock M or 450...in fact, you shoulda heard the phone call we got from the IH dealer when they dyno'ed a 450 we built for a customer, five or six years after it left our shop: "What the h*ll did you do to that tractor?...It can't POSSIBLY be making that kind of horsepower...can it?" And the fact is, this guy ran it almost every day on his farm, from pulling a bush hog to running a mixer mill, to plowing and planting. No, it wasn't "BONE" stock, but it WAS "FARM" stock...and it was what the customer wanted, bottom line!

Or how about the customer whose M got the over-5000 ft. (high-altitude) FACTORY IH sleeve and piston set, and then proceeded to beat the other locals in the stock classes? Was HIS tractor really STOCK? Maybe in Denver, but not HERE! So who do we ban and who do we let pull?

Or maybe that's why there are sanctioning organizations and rule books for pulls? (just a thought)...

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