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Turbo on 4020

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John

01-23-2003 06:34:58




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Hi Guys:

I'm going to add a turbo to my 1967 4020 diesel for pulling. I'm wanting to know if the intake and exhaust manifold from a 4430 will bolt to the 4020 head. I'm going to put a different hood on the tractor; I already know that I'll have to move the exhaust. How much horsepower can I get? I have a Roosa Master pump with a 31 head on it, does this sound correct? I also have a torque screw on the pump. I'm out to get Massey's and Intertrashionals.

Thanks for the opinions

John

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oliverman

01-24-2003 19:23:59




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
i know of a guy that did the same thing with the 4020 as you are wanting to do! i seen this tractor pull for over two years he was probably turning between 120 to 140 horse he want to use the tractor on the farm well after a little over two years and several head gaskets i seen it setting about 25 miles from his house for sale! my point is i think you are going to have problems down the road and also if you just had that pump rebuilt and you turn the screw on it then you void the waranty on it! i've been around tractors for thirty years and ive been pulling for 15 years i've seen alot ! if you want to beat those tractors you need more cubes and posibly a ta! i've owned 5 different makes of tractors if you are wanting to beat those tractors go out and get a MM 1350!!! with 585 cubes!!! i've seen a couple 1350's pull they where almost always first and second place at pulls if they ever got beat it was by IH!!!! IF YOU GO THREW WITH THE 4020 THEN I WISH YOU THE BEST OF LUCK AT IT!!!

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fly yellow

01-25-2003 20:49:28




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 Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to oliverman, 01-24-2003 19:23:59  
I agree those old yella byrds are awful mean!!!!



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Slo

01-24-2003 17:58:13




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
You'll want a bigger head on your pump. Try to find a 37 or 39, then do some work to it. You'll have your work cut out for you with the 404.



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JDJIM

01-23-2003 19:28:49




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
The 4430 ex manifold turbo setup will bolt right on , but it won't fit under the 4020 hood . I've seen them used with a hole cut in the hood . Neater setup is a M&W manifold and turbo with a 4430 intake all this fits under the original 4020 hood . Are you sure you have a 31 head ? I think 4020's came originally with the 33 head , my '64 had one and that's the first year 4020 . From what I've seen it's hard to get much more than 150-60hp with the 33 head . You have to go to a 37 to get to 200hp , it can be done using the right combinations of leaf spring , smoke screw etc . Any more , 200hp in "so called stock" pulling just ain't enough , been there done that and am still doing it just for my love of the old 4020 . Any questions ask or email me , Jim

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bob

01-23-2003 13:32:15




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
Give me a call maybe I can help you. 843-332-5728



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IH MAN

01-23-2003 08:44:06




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
Don't waste your time and money! Cut your losses! Sell the green thing and buy a 1066 IH. Just kidding, good luck! You might even beat a few of the red ones making all those modifications.



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BOB

01-23-2003 07:37:17




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 Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 06:34:58  
HAVE PARTS AND INFO. THAT WILL HELP. IT ALSO DEPENDS HOW FAR YOU WANT TO GO AND HOW FAST. CONTACT 843 332 5728 BOB



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John

01-23-2003 11:32:30




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 Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to BOB, 01-23-2003 07:37:17  
Bob:

what all do you have? I already have sources for the intake/exhaust manifold, and the old turbo. I don't want to go real far. I'm trying to pull in the farm stock class (Broad term in this neck of the woods, pretty much run what ya brung). I want a competitive tractor that blows a little black smoke. My first definite goal is to get a good hitch built and get myself a turbocharger. My pump has been rebuilt and it has a torque screw on it so fueling to a certain extent shouldn't be a problem. I know what you mean. I don't really farm with it much at all but when I do I want piece of mind that I can work it. I can do this with my fuel adjustments. I'm meaning that I want diesel performance but I don't want a pro-stock or a severly hot farm stock. Prolly no more than 180-200 horse.About my biggest competition are 1130's, 4430's, 4320's, and sometimes a ford 9000. What all do you recomend? What do you have in the line of parts.

Thanks,

JOhn

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steve

01-23-2003 11:54:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 11:32:30  
I am a JD man my self. Dont take this wrong but the #1 RULE in tractor pulling is THERES NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT !!!!! !!



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Jason

01-23-2003 12:27:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to steve, 01-23-2003 11:54:08  
I agree with steve, if you want to beat those guys get a 2255 Oliver 636CI(stock) V8 CAT POWER!!!!!



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pcy

01-24-2003 12:20:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Jason, 01-23-2003 12:27:49  
a 2255 had a 1160 not a 3208



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my homework is done

01-24-2003 16:09:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to pcy, 01-24-2003 12:20:43  
the olivers had the 573 cube 1160 not the 636 3208 they look alike the 1160 had a inline pump the 3208 had a v pump at least thats what my hotline quick reference guide shows



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2255 3208 CAT!!!!!!

01-25-2003 19:46:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to my homework is done, 01-24-2003 16:09:00  
I dont know what guide you have but its wrong I started my oliver dealership in 52. I sold without looking at records I would say 12 to 18 of these units the earley 2255 had the cat 3150 and the later came out with the 3208 cat.



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A.P.

01-24-2003 18:03:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to my homework is done, 01-24-2003 16:09:00  
Extra homework for you! The early production 2255's had an 1150 (573 cu.in) engine. The 1160 was a 636 cu.in. engine. The last year of 2255 production used the 3208 which replaced both the 1150 and 1160 engines. I suggest some extra credit work to bring your grade up.

Regards,
A.P.



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pcy

01-25-2003 04:48:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to A.P., 01-24-2003 18:03:08  
i knew the early ones had the 1150, then the1160 ,.didnt know that they put the 3208 in the later ones, thought that was a white thing,regardless the oliver books i got and the hotline quick reference guide shows the1150, 1160 , so i still say im 2/3 right , lol



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2255 WHITE THING

01-27-2003 07:06:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to pcy, 01-25-2003 04:48:47  
Stop while your behind please!! EVERY 2255 WAS A WHITE THING - As far as that goes everything that said OLIVER on it after November 1, 1960 was a WHITE thing. The "HUNDRED" series tractors were the last new tractor to be introduced while owned solely by the Oliver Corporation. Everything thereafter to be OLIVER-WHITE when Oliver was acquired by White Motor Corporation as a wholly owned subsidiary. You won't win so don't try to skate away on a technicality!!!!

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A.P.

01-25-2003 06:20:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to pcy, 01-25-2003 04:48:47  
Yeah, you are 2/3 right but you have to watch out for some of those sources, especially the Hot Line guide for any justification/documenation. They show(ed?) the Oliver Super 99/990/995/Massey 98 as being turbocharged! I should be able to put the big Molines in their place if I can run a turbo on a 3-71! ;-)

For the light weight classes they show the Oliver/Waukesha 302 cu.in. engine in the Super 44. It might be a bit nose heavy and hard to keep and engine in trans in it but it ought to go like heck. ;-)

Any one else found any similar errors in some of these reference books?

regards,
A.P.

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PCY DO YOUR HOMEWORK

01-24-2003 14:31:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to pcy, 01-24-2003 12:20:43  
if you still need help ! OLIVER HART-PARR crestline series by CH WENDEL page 258 theres even a picture!!!!!



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JJ

01-24-2003 16:51:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to PCY DO YOUR HOMEWORK, 01-24-2003 14:31:20  
OLLIES CAME OUT WITH 1160 BIGGER JUNK THAN 310'S IN EARLY 1950'S. SO MOST 1160'S REPLACED BY 3208'S



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Jason

01-25-2003 20:27:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to JJ, 01-24-2003 16:51:51  
Someone still has homework to do. I have a 74 model 2255 with factory 3208. before this was 3150s, I dont know where this 1160 or 1150 comes from but deffintely not in a 2255!!! My neighbor has one of the first year models with a factory 3150, no chage over from anyone!!!



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A.P.

01-26-2003 12:19:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Jason, 01-25-2003 20:27:11  
You are correct. Th earlier models used the 3150. I'd forgotten that they had the 3150/3160 models between the 3208 and the 1150/1160. The 1150/1160 are earlier versions of the 3150/3160. Not a whole lot of difference between them.

Regards,
A.P.



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3208 aka good boat anchor

01-23-2003 14:21:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Jason, 01-23-2003 12:27:49  
a 3208 with out alum. heads and custom crank ,rods,pistons is junk....just my 2 cents....



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.02 more cents then you have!!!!!

01-23-2003 16:51:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to 3208 aka good boat anchor, 01-23-2003 14:21:45  
That is about 2 cents more then you know!!!!! !



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John

01-23-2003 19:31:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to .02 more cents then you have!!!!!, 01-23-2003 16:51:21  
Boys:

We're talking 4020 404 diesel Deere power. I don't care about sissy cats. They're junk. They are V-8's, which aren't too good for a diesel. Especially, a 3208 cat has no torque. I've ran one and ridden in one less than 5 times, they're junk. You have to keep them governed out with any load on them or they will fall flat on their face, they can't hold their torque curve, just like any other V-8 diesel. I was at a tractor pull and saw this for a fact, huh. A JD 4320 beat a White 2-180 with the kitty cat in it, it fell flat on its face when the weight box came up; the ole 43 kept on rolling, he went all the way up to the 15000# class and won it all.

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Thats Funny!!!

01-24-2003 06:32:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-23-2003 19:31:07  
John some people claim they have seen big foot also! I seen those 4020s get beat regulary by 4 cyl detroits, with ease. I have seen a some mean V8s. one in Missouri. I have no trouble beating those JD with my V8 when we are all pulling the Farm stock class.



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G Taylor

01-24-2003 09:30:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Thats Funny!!!, 01-24-2003 06:32:26  
Pretty good for a natural aspirated 93 HP 4020 to compete with a 4-71 Detroit or the Cat. DD's will produce 180HP in "N" configuration at 2300rpm without being overfuel with just factory recomended N70 injectors without a turbo. The Kitty will make as much power as the injectors,turbo and water injection are sized at. How about hooking up in classes with 6030's or 4440's? etc.



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Jason

01-24-2003 12:00:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to G Taylor, 01-24-2003 09:30:45  
G Taylor I guess your 404CI is not an advantage to a 213CI Detroit? Most of the time the V8s pull in the heavy classes, against 6030s 4440s. No need to bring V8 cat to out pull 4020 when a little Detroit can do the job. I am sure you realize the Detroit was designed to be non-aspriated, not an add on.



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G Taylor

01-24-2003 15:17:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Jason, 01-24-2003 12:00:48  
You seem to miss the point that a 4020 is a HP match for a 3-53N Detroit not a 4-71N. Detroit two strokes came from the factory in natural aspirated and turbo,some even with intercoolers. Next someone is going to post and say all two stroke have roots blowers and non are naturaly aspirated..... sigh.



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Jason

01-25-2003 20:20:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to G Taylor, 01-24-2003 15:17:14  
I thought you were smarter then this? The 1900 has a 4-53 detroit. All detroits have a blower, this is factory equipment. The engine will not run without it! I thought everyone knew this? Some years later the 453 industrial engines were made with a turbo feeding the blower, but not in the tractors. You dont understand, CI is CI if anyone is at a disadvantage it is the smaller one. You are a typical JD person. I agree with A.P. posts. And for John and his 630 comment it must have been a model Deere didnt release to the public. My 99 has no problem with an 830 much less a 630. I must stop here, we are not giving John the info that he did ask for.

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G Taylor

01-27-2003 20:04:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to Jason, 01-25-2003 20:20:14  
The 4-53 is good for 165HP In "N" trim with four valve heads at 2800rpm and N50 injectors. More power and smoke yet with N70's. Go check with DD. The non turbo two stroke DD are identified as natural aspirated. Add the exhaust driven centrifical turbine and they are forced induction. We are talking DD, not your hero's forced induction Chevy with a 6-71 blower. As for your 99, I'll wager it against Jim's 1959 Deere 630 in the 10,000 lb class on Blyth's clay track at 2-1/2 mph max.

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John

01-24-2003 17:41:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to G Taylor, 01-24-2003 15:17:14  
Yea G Taylor:

All Detroits are forced inducted to anyone that knows anything about diesels. They're all supercharged, and some had turbo's also. I don't know why you guys like to strip[ down a 15000# tractor to beat a 9000# FARM tractor. I like Detroits but Kitty Cats aren't too good in my book. Lets get this topic back to Deere's boys. I could use some good information.

Thanks,

JOhn



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G Taylor

01-24-2003 18:42:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-24-2003 17:41:00  
Well DD themselves refer to a two stroke diesel with just a scavenging blower as being naturaly aspirated. They are considered blown or forced induction when equiped with turbo(s). There does seem to be great delight on this board and at pulls when a tractor two sizes larger beats the smaller? Then they brag how the bigger tractors brand is better? It's worth watching however when one of the locals here fires up the 630 and enters the 10,000lb class in sticky clay. She's down in creeper gear,lugging but she's perfectly balanced with some amazing 38" tires. I've never seen him go home with less than 2nd prize and 1st is the norm. Sends the bigger tractors home and the owners away with thier tails between their legs.

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A.P.

01-24-2003 18:17:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo on 4020 in reply to John, 01-24-2003 17:41:00  
Good question John. Why do so many people "strip" 6030's so they can pull in the 9000-10,000 pound farm classes?

If you are talking about a true farm class then you shouldn't be able to pull in a class under the standard factory shipping weight for a whole tractor. No special allowances for pressed rear rims, etc. No add on turbo's and no turning the fuel up on those equipped with a turbo. Just trying to keep things a bit more even.

Regards,
A.P.

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