ZA on the dyno today - good results?

Thanks,

Zack

The L.P manifolds can and will show more hp but kill the bottom end due to there larger flow rate on small cube motors.

I have taken them off and put the factory gas one back on and brought another 50 lbs of torque back.

Chad and i have talked on this topic and he has even put restricters in them to uncrease the intake charge.

I have had my M at 2600 rpm and made 95 hp on a standard bore motor with 155 lbs torque!

I then backed it down to 1800 and made 60 something and 198 lbs of torque.

I hooked to the transfer sled with the rpm up and it was a terd.

I went back and turned the rpm down to 1800 and rehooked and almost made a full pull.

Point being big hp #s mean nothing .

SO, say you run a few times, and learn a pattern,, HMM,, never drops below say 1200 rpm, and it did real good at 1600, and well at high rpm, there as no load on it,, so this now gives you a rpm scale to focus on for the best results for your particular application. (make and model) Once the driver feels in touch with the pulling contraption, the driver should feel confident to try things,, driving a little more and driving it by the throttle and if there is a ground crew watching the chassis, seeing things the driver cant see and getting together and making fine tune adjustements, will make a tough pulling "team" to beat when they are on, and ready to pull.

The guy tuning it on the dyno talking with the driver will note the rpm feed back and be able to enahance that rpm scale to get the best out of what the dyno person is working with to be competitive. So, go out, tune em, a run a few times,,, get the engine running good and the weights right, and usually on the ZAU I had,, the front was light and needed weight up front,, even with the front tires filled with water. I think it was 4200# it was at,,, got second place its first time out. spent a week on the dyno and in the shop with hitch adjustments based of the dyno results. Hope this helps, its helped me, but puting it all together takes time and help from others. ChadS

Mark

When you time the motor due it under full load with a timing light with a tach in it, go for highest rpm.

Full load on a 540 pto is 200 rpm under rated rpm or what ever rpm your dynoing it at

Full load on a 1800 rpm motor is 1600 rpm this is the rpm you want to set the timing to.

"Another tip" if there is a set screw in the intake track between the carb and the head put a hose barb in it. "Reason for" put a vacume gage on it and and load it down on the dyno ! It should go to "0" meaning your carb is meeting the demands of the motor. If it doesn't then you need to play with jetting.

I have a 52 Super M that has stock crank, stock stroke and rods, stock cam, standard bore but with a high compression piston. The head is a 450 [gas] with a lot of work done to it . Other then that the motor is factory "stock" ya i know gray area .

Stock is 44 hp

as of last Sunday were sitting at 75.143 hp that is a 75% improvement and 198 ft lbs torque. 93 octain gas.

Loose the race fuel it's hurting you , it's not spinning enough rpm to help.

What kind of cylinder presure do you have [psi] ?

I got up to 150 psi last year [7 to 1] 62hp.This year it's at 215 psi and 10.71 to 1 with new pistons . 75.143

We have a math formula we use based on the dynos info oil presure , rpm and hp that is much better for higher rpm motors. The NE test info is great for factory rpm rated tractors,but us pullers turn the rpm up so that test data no longer works.

"Oh" by the way i run a dyno service on the side so i play with it alot .[ The Dyno]!!!!

If you time it like i pointed out at the top you should see a amazing amount of gain in hp.

I am very impressed that you were able to get that amount of hp out of your Farmall M. What engine rpm is the 75.143hp at?

I have spun it at 2600 rpm and made alot more hp but the torque #s fall off after 1950 rpm. The factory cam in mine falls off in torque at 1950 rpm and it doesn't lug well. Besides these cranks don't have bob weights on them like a car and the vibration tears them apart .

The formula for torque is:

5252xHP [divided by] RPM.

5252 X 40 [ DIVIDED by] 1800 =

116.71 lbs torque.

Use this formula with the differnt rpm settings, you will see a point ware the torqe # starts falling [ cam all done making power].

Timing the motor :

Spin the motor up on the dyno to 1800 rpm and load it down to 1600 this is a full load as printed by the NE test standards for a gas tractor .

With a timing light in hand with a digital tach in it turn the dist tell you get the highest rpm. The only use of the timing light is for the tach , were not useing it for reading timing marks .

The digital is more accurate then a cable tach.

This will have to be rechecked everytime you make a change to see if that timing setting is correct for the current set up .

Put a good hot coil on the motor along with fresh dist, meaning everything is in good working order. If you use a MSD coil [I do ] you" must" run a ballest resister between the coil and the dist. Tractor coils have them built in and auto coils don't.

I ran with out it and the coil gets very hot. Then i stalled the tractor on the dyno with the ign switch in the on position , it then procedded to melt the pickup coil in the dist of my brand new electronic ign [ same one you have ]. FIRE . The resister just drops the voltage to the coil to keep it cool. It doesnt hurt performance at all .

The fuel toppic is something that many have talked at great lenght about. Many on here think Chad is " differnt" but he is really a nice guy who has tried alot of crazy things.

I used to run 110 fuel as well, but it's not needed and it actualy hurts power. High octain fuel burns cool and slow that is why people use it[ slow cool burn = more hp] for high rpm.

Chad has been pushing the E-85 and getting great results [jetting required] bigger.

There is a few "Farmall A s" in our club that pull and use it with amazing results.

I'm still mixing due to my current cylinder presure being so high. But i'm going to give E-85 a shot and see what the dyno says .

Well i'll talk at you later, going to get some tires swapped on rims.

Jim

If you want this info private get me at.

[email protected]

I did advance the cam one tooth last night. I believe this should help since my father did this on his MM UB with great results.

I inspected the governor before I assembled it (a few months ago) and it seemed tight, as in not worn out. It has pretty good governor response.

So it's back to the dyno this weekend to tune the timing one more time.

For some rerason, the science is bass akwards from high rpm. Where in high rpm engines, cyl pressure is an enemy, so they deflate the cyl pressures by cam overlap so they dont self destruct at the higher rpm,,, less stress and longer life for the high rpm engine.

Low rpm engines, seems like the cyl pressure can be out in left field almost up to diesil cyl pressure specs, and still fire em and make torque. The flame the fuel, and the piston head design create when it fires on low rpm engines, when its a colder, and slower burning, it keeps the fire pushing "longer" on the pistons power stroke. Im talking the actual burn time inside the cyl,,, race fuels, burn up quick,, leave alot of residue behind too,,,

E85, is a cold fuel when it mixes with air. It can drop incomming air temps by 20 degrees easily, so thats a plus,,, When it fires, it has a long burn time, which can make more hp and torque, and usually it does both,, sometimes, in the right setup, it can outperform race fuel, av gas, VP, by 5-10 hp in the right conditions. E85 loves high cyl pressure, and Ive got engines with 300 psi at cranking speed running on it at a 50/50 mix of E85 to 93 octane ammoco Ultimate pump gas and making more power than its race fuel counterparts.

On the dyno, on 4 cyl stock rpm dyno tests, the race fuel showed a less aggressive torque curve when tuning for peak power, lazy in other words. And when luggeed past the rated rpm, they are very "flatlined" Then we swap out to E85 mix.

Sure, you have to go bigger on the jets, and you do have to reset your base timing, the results can be as good as a 3 hp gain, and the most Ive ever pulled out of an E85 conversion was a 17 hp gain at rated rpm VS a race fuel based tune. I did try to dial in the race fuel, and got more out of it, but not as much as the E85. I think James will see a gain of 5-10 hp more than where he is now,,,,, the 450 gas head can flow, and it seems like it has great cyl pressure, and looks like he is going whiskey bent! Hope this helps a little on E85. ChadS

What are other good ways to get power out of these engines? Is it possible to pull in 2nd in a light class?