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CNKS Need your advice

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LBH

08-17-2005 18:09:38




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NAPA Air Compressors Air Compressor -- Gas,Dual Stage,8 HP,Horizontal Item#: NAC82831

Price: $ 776.99 tax and shipping not included

Disclaimer: The stated price may vary from the in store price and may change at anytime.

Available only at NAPA stores.


Attributes:
Attributes: Air Compressor Gas or Electric: Gas Stage Type: Dual Stage Horsepower: 8 HP Tank Type: Horizontal # of Cylinders: 2 Additional Contents: Compressor CFM Pump Displacement: 19.5 Engine Type: Briggs & Straton Height: 39'' Length: 39.5'' Lubrication System Type: Splash Magnetic Starter Required: No Maximum Pressure: 175 psi Pump Material: Cast Iron Pump RPM: 1300 SCFM Rating: 13.5 Series: Performance Tank Capacity: 30 gal Type: Reciprocating Weight: 300 lbs Width: 19''


What do you think about his air compressor? I am leaning toward a gas because I want to build a cart to put this on and then I can put it on my trailer when I need to so that I can take it to my farm when I need it to do work. I don't have power down there. I will use it in my shop some too. Using it for air grinder, painting, impact wrench, sander. I won't be using it everyday. I might use it three or four days in a row and then I might now use it for week or so. Do you like these? Does it have enough ump to do what I need. I don't have to have the best but I don't want a peice of junk either. I don't mind to wait everynow and then to catch up either. I am on a budget. I don't want to break the bank. Any suggestions appreciated.

THanks,

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Stephen Shursky

08-21-2005 04:55:31




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice in reply to LBH, 08-17-2005 18:09:38  
Words of wisdom----- Old time machinist once said to me "You can make a big machine do a small machines job, but you can't make a small machine do a big machines job" I am giving a little TLC to an old tow behind Gardner Denver 125 CFM air compressor for the same use. You may find one for the same money a new compresser would cost. You may even find diesel driven at a reasonable price. Do all the sandblasting you want.

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CNKS

08-18-2005 08:25:06




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice in reply to LBH, 08-17-2005 18:09:38  
I'm not the air compressor expert -- Rod(NH) may give his opinion. The only two specs you gave that mean anything are the 13.5 SCFM, which for your purposes is probably marginal, when you mention things like an air grinder. Also, you did not state at what pressure the 13.5 psi is measured at--for what you do that number should be at 90-100 psi. CFM goes down as air pressure goes up. Two stage is a plus. For painting, probably ok, but remember some paint guns require 13 cfm, so you need to match the gun to the compressor. The other spec is the 30 gal tank size, in my opinion you will be better off with 60. I can't comment on the gas engine, as I have only used electric compressors. My opinion is don't buy too small, been there, done that.

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LBH

08-18-2005 09:20:52




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice (ROD NH) in reply to CNKS, 08-18-2005 08:25:06  
Rod can you take a look at this?



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Rod (NH)

08-18-2005 16:01:56




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice (ROD NH) in reply to LBH, 08-18-2005 09:20:52  
I've never owned an engine-driven compressor but if you are looking for something portable that can be used where there is no electic power available, then you are pretty much left with that for a choice. I agree with CN, the number that is most important is the 13.5. I disagree with the reference to SCFM (Standard Cubic Feet per Minute) but that seems to be common practice among some manufacturers. I'll blame it on ignorance of marketing departments. Compressors should never be rated in terms of SCFM because the rating would then vary, depending on the location of the compressor. Compressors are more properly rated on inlet CFM (ICFM), sometimes also referred to as "free air CFM" or just plain CFM, interpreted to mean CFM of ambient air. That way, the rating is independent of location. ICFM is the about the same, numerically, as SCFM only when at sea level and "normal" ambient temperatures. If you happen to be located in Denver, CO, for example, any true SCFM rating would have to be discounted by about 20% to get a meaningful air rate at that lower ambient air density. In any event, I'll take the 13.5 to really mean inlet CFM of ambient air and not really SCFM.

The other point that CN makes is that there is no reference pressure point for the CFM rating, e.g. 100 psig. My two stage is rated at 175psig and the CFM rate is stated to be at that pressure, not the more common ratings such as xx cfm@90 psig, yy cfm@40psig that you usually see attached to single stage machines. The one you are considering is indicated to be a two stage unit. That's good because you'll get cooler air out of it than a single stage one. That is, if you can call 300 or so degrees F as being cooler :o). In any event, moisture control is easier with two stage units because of lower discharge temperatures for the same discharge pressure. I know it's risky to assume but I'll assume that the 13.5 cfm is taken to mean at 175 psig, similar to my compressor, since it is not stated otherwise. That would mean you'd probably get 14 or 14.5 cfm at the common 90 or 100 psig reference point. Even if that assumption is wrong, the 13.5 should be satisfactory for your intended uses, if it's at any reasonable pressure point. I consider any CFM rating at 40 psig to be essentially meaningless. You aren't going to do much with a tank pressure that low except dust removal with a blow gun.

I think you'd be very satisfied with that compressor. At least from what I can see of the specs. It should do about anything you want except extensive sandblasting. While most sanders and grinders will require more than the 13.5 on a rated, continuous basis, most people do not run such tools at the full throttle pressure (usually 90 psig), do not run them at full rated speed and do not run them continuously for long periods. Although I wouldn't recommend it to others, I made do for many years with only 6.8 cfm@90psig (20 gal tank) using all kinds of tools, including spray guns. So unless you are in a production situation, I think you will do fine with 13.5. About the only probable situation that I can think of, except sandblasting, where you might have to wait every once in a while for the pressure to regain itself is in using a DA sander. The 30 gal tank is a little on the small side but is a necessary compromise to keep the unit reasonably portable. I would like to see a little slower pump rpm and a Honda rather than a B&S engine, but hey, you can't have everything and that price is pretty good for what you are getting.

Just remember that the engine will run all the time you are using the compressor, even if you are not using air. It makes no sense to shut things down if you are going to use it again in a few minutes. The engine simply unloads and idles automatically when the tank pressure gets up to the cut-off point (175 psig) and automatically loads and throttles-up when the pressure drops to the cut-in point, likely 145 psig. You'll have to shut the engine down manually when you are really done using it for that session. All engine-driven compressors are like that so it's not specific to this machine.

Go for it. It seems to meet your particular needs nicely.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

08-18-2005 17:13:22




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice (ROD NH) in reply to Rod (NH), 08-18-2005 16:01:56  
Yes, I remembered that the 13.5 was likely to be at max pressure (175 psi) after I posted, meaning that at 90-100 there will be more air. I have both a single stage and a 2-stage, the single stage is rated at 100 psi, the 2-stage at 150.



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Rod (NH)

08-18-2005 20:38:45




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 Re: CNKS Need your advice (ROD NH) in reply to CNKS, 08-18-2005 17:13:22  
I don't know if it is common practice to have a two stage flow rating at the same point as the maximum pressure rating in the small units that we talk about here. The older, large industrial two stage machines in the several hundred - 1000 hp range were indeed rated for flow and pressure at the same point, usually 100 psig. That was (is) a standard pressure rating for large factory compressed air systems. Many of the small single stage units do not seem to be rated for flow at the maximum pressure they are rated for. For instance, it is common to see ss flow ratings at both 40 and 90 psig while the maximum pressure rating is either 125 or 135 psig. I suppose it looks better in the eyes of the marketing/advertising departments to show a larger number for capacity at the lower pressures. Sort of like the almost fraudulent current use of high hp "ratings" to suggest something that is simply not true. That practice seems rampant in the under 10 hp class. I guess SEARS started the game with their 2 hp, "3.5 developed hp" crap from years ago.

I still have my old 2 hp ss compressor. I upgraded several years ago to a 5 hp (true hp) two stage unit, 80 gal, rated at 16.8 cfm at 175 psig. I keep my old one around because I don't think my standby generator (12.5 kw) can start my 5 hp compressor. I know it can start my old one so I keep that in case I need it during an extended power outage. The last major ice storm we had, the utility power was out for over a week.

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