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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

OK, Ill try it over here,

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scott#2

07-04-2005 04:11:33

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I just stopped by a good friend of mines collision repair center and showed him the sa grill that I posted picks of. This guys been spraying cars for 25 years, mostly high and very high end stuff. He walked me to a can of Spies Hecker #3508 polyester filling paint and said 2-3- coats would probably take care of it. Says you can put on up to 40 mils. thick. Went on to say thats what we use for light to medium hail damage, just sand it up, spray it, sand and seal and topcoat. Goes on hind of hairy, easy sand, use a 2mm tip or bigger. Just about every major paint manufactuer has a "polyester fill" type paint.

Anyone ever tried these product or have any opinions or guesses? Most curious to here what you guys think of this idea or as some/most would say "quick fix".

I have a tech sheet but dont think I can attach a pdf file here. I will email it if anyone wants it.

Thanks,scott#2

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Frank Stalfire

07-05-2005 14:16:17

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 04:11:33

HI Scott, I was a rep for Spies Hecker for a few years before I went to DuPont, The 3508 you ask about is a spray polyester and does require a spray gun with a huge nozzle, SATA used to make agun just for this with a 2.5 tip. it is used heavily by the restoration shops and iss good for slight waves and dips, it sands good with 100 or 180, it can not go direct to metal nor can it be directly topcoated, Standox also makes it as Spray Poly.
Frank

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scott#2

07-05-2005 14:48:13

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to Frank Stalfire, 07-05-2005 14:16:17

Thanks Frank, I was going to use either Spies 2 part 4583 primer or PPG MP170 Epoxy first. The tech said it needs to be sealed with Vario 8590 before topcoating. All this is a mystery to me. I have hawked thousands of post on this forum and have read some real disaster stories about compatibility. Dont want that to happen to me, thats why I am beating it into the ground. I was planning to try a HVLP setup with a 2mm tip for the filler application.

scott#2

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Frank Stalfire

07-06-2005 19:38:21

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-05-2005 14:48:13

HI Scott
polyester cannot directly to metal and it cannot go directly to an acid etch, which is where 4583 comes in. it goes over etch like Spies 3688, and vario is an excellent choice before topcoat. I will caution you though that proper flash times are important, to much or to little flash betweeen coats can meaan failure. You will have 3 products to juggle, 3688, 4583, 3508. another way is to use etch, 3688, then 2 coats of vario, let dry, scuff sand and then use 3508 and do the starightening work and vario again. It adds a new step but releives the wet on wet on wet problems.
Frank

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TDK

07-04-2005 21:18:15

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 04:11:33

I haven't used the brand you mentioned, but have been using something called "Rust Defender" by Z-Chrome. It's a polyester filler also. Waterproof & self-etching. I'd rather used the two part putty for small areas of pitting, but unfortunately a lot of these old tractors are covered with pits. This is where the spray on filler is the best. It's fine on small dents too, like the hail damage. Ready to sand in about an hour. Goes on much smoother than you could spread it on so it also means less sanding. If you're not replacing the grille screen, just tape it off if possible. It will not noticeably build up on screen anyway. Try it and let us know your results !

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Rod (NH)

07-04-2005 11:32:22

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 04:11:33

Scott,

I have never gotten around to try that. I don't think I have the equipment to properly spray it, although perhaps I could use a suction feed tip and needle assembly in pressure feed mode on my full sized gun. They don't make a big enough tip for my gravity-only spot gun :o). I believe most of the paint manufacturers have a version of it. The advantage that I can see would be speed and convenience - time is money in a for-profit body shop. You still have to sand it though, which is probably the majority of the work effort. Actually there may be more sanding with the sprayable since the thickness would be uniform, even outside the pits. From that standpoint, it seems to me that it is only an improvement over the spread version - polyester finishing putty - if you are going to use an awful lot of it over large areas. If you got the gun and tip to use it properly, sure - give it a try. If you do, be sure to post back your thoughts afterwards. I'd be interested in your experience with it since I've only dealt with serious pitting using the spread version.

Remember that polyester has a real short pot life and once it "kicks over", it hardens rapidly. I would expect that a complete disassembly and thorough cleaning of the gun would be necessary immmediately after use. No lingering.

Here's a linked copy of the pdf for the Spies Hecker product you mention.

Rod

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scott#2

07-04-2005 14:50:12

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to Rod (NH), 07-04-2005 11:32:22

Thanks Rod & CNKS. Guess the only difference in the products is how you apply it. I thought it might be easier to work with on the grill given the wire mesh behind the cross bars. I really dont want to "close" those holes down with either product and thought it might be worse with the spreadable product vs the spray. (drooling over the edges) Somehow I need to keep it off the mesh, unless I could remove it but it doesnt look like it comes off the grill to easily. (spot welded clips??)

Ill probably give it a try, just for an experiment. As I have stated before, I am just lousy with spreadable fillers and quite jealous of people who can work that stuff to their benifit.

Mabey I can figure a way to slide some sheet between the grill and screen before starting on the pits.

That adjustable front end tried to kill me today (getting it free after 55 years)

Thanks, I knew I could count on you two for opinions.

scott#2

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Rod (NH)

07-04-2005 19:53:31

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 14:50:12

Well, the opinion is worth just about what you paid for it, especially since I have never used the product. If you are careful with a small spreader, take your time and work in small sections at a time, I think you would do fine with the finishing putty. The instructions say you can brush it on but I have never tried doing it that way. I tend to think the spreader is better. The small plastic spreader shown here tapers to a fine flexible edge. You can get them in most places that sell stuff like that. I would think stores like K-Mart or Walmart or a place like that would have them in addition to auto paint suppliers. They usually come in an assortment of sizes. Pick up just a little bit of the mixed putty with the spreader and carefully swipe it on the pitted areas. Use the spreader to skim off the excess. You want to fill the pits with putty but leave a minimum on the surrounding metal that is not pitted in order to minimize sanding. Don't mix up a lot at one time, go slow and be patient. Time spent in careful application will result in time saved during sanding. When you get a coat of primer on over it after sanding, you'll see the pits you missed :(. Just go over them again. I know it's a pain but I don't think there is an easy way. If there are not many remaining pits, you can touch them up with some red lacquer spot putty. I'd put a final two to four coats of surfacer over everything before final sanding and topcoating. For the screen itself, you'll probably only want primer and topcoat on it. If some of the screen is covered up by portions of the grill, it won't be getting anything in those areas and probably should be removed and painted separately if possible. Yup, as CN says, lots of hand sanding. I don't think there is any other way.

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CNKS

07-04-2005 17:19:58

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 14:50:12

If you don't remove the screen you will have a mess. You will probably damage some of the clips, when you remove it. I buy new screen and hold it with the remaining clips. It never fits as good as the old one, but is not noticeable. You are in for a lot of sanding, regardless, but the only other choice is another grille.

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CNKS

07-04-2005 06:00:19

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Re: OK, Ill try it over here, in reply to scott#2, 07-04-2005 04:11:33

I've heard of it. Bought a gallon from my PPG dealer a couple of years ago. Opened it and took it back because it had solidified -- therefore not many people know about or use the stuff, it was probably 5 years old. They had two cans and were using the other for a doorstop (literally). It will work though. "Easy sanding" or not, be prepared to do a lot of sanding, particularly on the bars of the grille.

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