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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

How much money?

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Josh Agustia

09-26-2004 20:02:21

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How much money would it cost to paint my Farmall H from top to bottom? Are the $30-50 paintguns any good? I want a hard finish that will last a while, I would also like it to have a nice shine, it doesn"t have to be a car quality finish, but I would like it to look nice. How much should paint and primer cost me?

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Butch(OH)

09-27-2004 09:56:57

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Re: How much money? in reply to Josh Agustia, 09-26-2004 20:02:21

Frank has the materials real close, depends on whether you go with the economy lines or the top notch stuff. The economy lines from PPG or Dupont will serve you real well in a tractor application as they are head and shoulders above what was on them originaly. As for the gun I am extreemly satisfied with my Astro HVLP for $175 but I have never used a mega buck gun. Accourding to the dealer that sold it to me the big difference between the medium and high priced guns is how long they will do a nice job. Mine is on it's 9th job now and as far as I can tell it lays paint on as good as when new.

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Frank Stalfire

09-26-2004 20:21:48

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Re: How much money? in reply to Josh Agustia, 09-26-2004 20:02:21

Hi Josh
I am a rep for DuPont and will give you my 2 cents worth. assuming you will do all the labor, the cost of the finish would be 3-$700. and this is an industry where you get what you pay for. You can go low end automotive with Nason or Chroma system single stage to upper end Fleet with Imron Elite or Imron 5000. You can also go with Dupont industrial paint which is priced like low end automotive but is absolutly bullet-proof, the draw back is the gloss level is not like automotive, it's about 70% and it sprays very "orange peely", also the film thickness's need to be between 6-8 mils which means it likes to be pushed out of a gun not pulled so you will have to buy a pressure fed system and to your spray gun question, again this is an industry where you get what you pay for and a decient gun will set you back $500, a 30-$50 wouldn't be worth your time in my opion. It's alot to think about but it's going to be a large part of your restoration.
Frank

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dumb painter

09-28-2004 18:26:46

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-26-2004 20:21:48

You mentioned Dupont industrial paint in the previous post. Can you describe this paint in better detail? The majority of the tractors I paint are still used everday. The owners only want a paint job that is as good as OEM. I do not need a mirror finish as the tractors sure did not come with one. I could however use a very durable paint. I would appreciate any help.

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Frank Stalfire

09-28-2004 20:48:40

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Re: How much money? in reply to dumb painter, 09-28-2004 18:26:46

Hi
Dupont has had an Idustrial line for the past 70 years, only 3 years ago it was released to the general market before that you had to be a manufactuer or business to get it, even then you had to buy direct from Dupont which meant setting up an account and being approved. The line has Direct to metal urethane top coats, epxoy primers, and a line of water borne urethanes that can go direct to metal. The durability is second to none, we sell to the rail industry and bridge manufactuers so durability is critical. the problem with using Idustrial is if you are used to an automotive finish you will be dissapointed with the gloss level, you said you are not concered about gloss so much, the best industrial finish would Imron 3.5HG topcoat and Corlar 2.8PR epoxy primer ( the Imron is an Industrial Imron not to be confused with the fleet Imron )the second best would be Imron 3.5HG-D a urethane direct to metal. there are other choices but in the intrest of time I'll wait for a reply from you to go into more detail, price wise topcoat 3.5HG is about $ 42 a gallon and activator is $23 a quart, in the Industrial world we are priced high but have alot of direct to metal products eliminating primers. Hope this helps
Frank

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Dumb painter

09-29-2004 11:56:13

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-28-2004 20:48:40

Does all the Idustrial line have to be used with harder? I'm assuming that the activator you refer to is an ISO containing hardner. Also how does the direct to metal paint hold up compared to when its over primer?

Thanks

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Frank Stalfire

09-29-2004 20:13:35

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Re: How much money? in reply to Dumb painter, 09-29-2004 11:56:13

The 3.5Hg does have an Iso containing activator however any of the products in the Industrial line can be rolled or brushed on, thus reducing airborne iso's There is a waterborne sytem, it is 1.2Hg and it also can go direct to metal. As far as the direct to metal stuff you get a longer life cycle with a primer under the topcoat, the difference would be a 10-15 without primer or 20-25 with

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dumb painter

09-30-2004 19:09:23

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-29-2004 20:13:35

Do the water borne system need an Iso containing activator. What else can you tell me about the waterbourne system? Thanks

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Dumb painter

09-30-2004 19:28:47

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Re: How much money? in reply to dumb painter, 09-30-2004 19:09:23

I just found the above post where you explained water borne paint. I was wondering about what does a gallon of Imron 1.2 HG cost if mixed to IH 2150 red. Or can it not be custom mixed. Also what can you tell me about epoxy paints?

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Frank Stalfire

09-30-2004 20:31:31

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Re: How much money? in reply to Dumb painter, 09-30-2004 19:28:47

Hi
you can expect to pay $50-60 gal. as far as the color2150, I have a color database on my computer and just looked it up and it has not been formulated in the 1.2HG quality yet, now thats not the end of the world, a request can be sent to the color development lab in VA and a formula could be developed in about 2 weeks. As far as Epoxys go, Epoxy is the name of the resin the pigment is suspended in, they are very hard, durable, chemically resistant, they contain a small amount of acid and have excellant adheasion to bare steel, some can go over rust ans some can go over a damp surface, they can be submersibal and the 2.1 quality can be submersed in a salt water enviromnt. the automotive line is only available in gray and the Industrial line is available in colors. The draw backs are, Nasty stuff, Iso's and acid in the activator, they are a non-sanding primer, epoxy resin cannot handle UV rays and will deteriorate in the sunlight, the deterioration looks like a "chalky" film, which is why exterior applications need a topcoat. also epoxy's are very slow to dry, one coat requires a 40 minute flash, 2 coats will take the flash to 1 hour. you can acess information on all Dupnt products at performancecoating.dupont.com there are product data sheets and MSDS sheets there, you can acess the site initially as a visitor but will need to register to veiw privledged stuff, registration is free.

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Dumb painter

10-01-2004 13:06:53

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-30-2004 20:31:31

I a located in central Iowa. Can you tell me where I would go to have 1.2HG custom mixed? That of course would be after the color was developed. I think this paint sounds like it might have real potential for certain tough application. Also, if I just wanted to try a gallon of factory packed where Could I get it?

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Frank Stalfire

10-01-2004 20:03:32

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Re: How much money? in reply to Dumb painter, 10-01-2004 13:06:53

HI
Not sure if I gave you the web site, it is peformancecoatings.dupont.com, we do not sell directly to the public or the body shop we sell to a distributer who sells to the consumer, we call the distributer the jobber, if you go to the web site it has a button for "finding a jobber" you can search there for someone in your area or you can call 800-3Dupont, option #4, the jobber will have or be able ot order the products factory packed and request custom color mixes

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Big Jim

09-26-2004 20:59:41

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-26-2004 20:21:48

Frank"s pretty good on the paint but I think he"s off on the guns. $500 is going to buy a Mercedes quality gun. $200 will get you a gun that is good enough for anything but custom paint. Under a hundred will get you a Sharpe FineX which is a chineese copy of the $500 gun, The materials won"t be as good and the tolerances will be a tad worse but it will do a darned good paint job.
All this assumes you have a compressor up to the task of running a modern spray gun. Otherwise, add $1000 for a suitable entry level compressor for this kind of work.

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Frank Stalfire

09-27-2004 06:08:31

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Re: How much money? in reply to Big Jim, 09-26-2004 20:59:41

Good catch on needing a compressor jim, I hadn't thought of that. Actually the Mercedes of spray guns would be the GEO FX which is $750 or the SATA K3 which is $689 just for the gun. I am in body and restoration shops every and hands down the most common gun for the professional painter is either the SATA NR2000, digital or not, the Devilbis GT or the new Plus gun, and the Iwata LH400. The cheapest of these is the Iwata which would list for about $400, the SATA which is no.1 in shops lists for $500,and the Devilbis is in line with the SATA, now you can possibly get these on Ebay for $300. 3M has now enetered the spray gun market with a line of gun manufactured by GRACO, these are selling in the $400-$500 range. The sharpe gun you mention I am not familliar with but if it's close to the others I would like to check it out.
Frank

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Big Jim

09-28-2004 00:03:53

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-27-2004 06:08:31

The gun I hear about most is the Sata, far and away. I've been told the Sharp FineX is an inexpensive copy of the Sata. There are a couple of other factors to consider when you look at what you find in commercial shops. One, frankly, is the "Tool Snob" issue Many people will buy a big name gun for the same reason they buy a Lexus, not that it is greatly superior but it has the name. The other which is quite legitimate for a Pro, is lifespan. I have one of those Harbor Freight guns that I use for primer. With my very moderate use, I can already see wear on it. In a day to day environment, you would be replacing it frequently. I also have an old (30 years plus)Sharpe 75 conventional gun that looks and shoots almost like new. It was a fairly expensive gun back then. I really believe the average do-it-yourself painter would not detect $500 worth of difference between guns in the few tractors he does in his career. The full-time painter would see a difference because the better materials and tighter tolerances would give him dead flat consistancy job after job.

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Frank Stalfire

09-28-2004 12:07:21

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Re: How much money? in reply to Big Jim, 09-28-2004 00:03:53

I think we have done this topic to death, I feel what everybody keeps coming back to is the high price guns are for the professional and the low end for the hobbyest.I agree 100% with that but I do feel however if you spend big bucks on premium paint and try to apply it with a low end gun you take a greater risk of failure and failure can result in redo-ing the job, now you've just thrown away as much money as it would have cost to buy tthe proper equipment and once you spend the money you will never have to buy another again. Every industry has "knock-off" tools and you will not likely see a pro with a cheap tool and as consumers we like to buy "professional grade" items because we know they have proven themselves, i think Chevy? has "we are professional grade" as part of there add slogans. So, just as you can't fix up the family wagon and go to the race track and expect to win you can't buy cheap tools and expect profesional results.

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Peabody

09-29-2004 05:33:45

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-28-2004 12:07:21

Frank, I'll concede. And I did have a couple of screws/needle valves kinda rattle loose on my HF gun while painting. Nice thing about being a novice, if you don't know what they are for, they don't really bother you when they come off. That's one reason I threw the gun away after using it once, it wasn't whole anymore.:-)

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Seth

09-27-2004 20:31:46

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-27-2004 06:08:31

I have a Binks model 7. It is 30 years old and still works great. I have spent less than $50 in repair over the years. I can not even count the number of paint jobs it has done. I have painted a lot of Tractors for other people. i think that a binks model 7 list for about $350, but have seen them on discount on the internet for $270. Have used those $30 guns for priming. They are TERRIBLE. My binks makes painting enjoyable, but does not cost a fortune like other professional quality guns. (since I only paint tractor and use cheapOEM paints I do not like HVLP) I figure even at $350 I could pay off another Binks on one tractor should I ever need another.

What ever you do don't buy a cheap gun. You will regret it if you ever get the chance to use a good gun!

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Peabody

09-27-2004 13:22:36

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-27-2004 06:08:31

You guys are "blowing" me away with these gun prices. Over a year ago, I bought a gun on sale from Harbor Freight for around $20, used it one time to Paint my '52 Super C I was restoring, and threw the gun away. Anybody who has seen the tractor will tell you what a really good paint job it was and continues to be. Used the IH2150 paint, no hardener. Unless I was in the paint & body business, I just can't see paying $200-$500 for a paint gun I'm probably only going to use two or three times.

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Peabody

09-27-2004 13:20:36

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Re: How much money? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-27-2004 06:08:31

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