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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M

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KCSUPERMMAN

08-22-2004 13:54:20




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HI GUYS FROM OHIO, QUESTION’S DIRECTED TO – ROD (NH), CNKS, AND DOZERBOSS AND ANY OTHERS THAT CAN GIVE ME IMPUT, ---- I’VE BEEN READING A LOT OF THE POSTINGS ABOUT PAINT AND BODY WORK. I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE STORED UP IN YOU GUYS!!!!! :o) SO I COULD USE SOME HELP W/ MY DECISION MAKING OF CHOOSING THE RIGHT MATERIALS FOR MY RESTORATION OF A “53” SUPER M FARMALL. I’VE BEEN TEARING DOWN AND STRIPPING HER FOR ABOUT 8 MONTHS NOW. I’VE PAINTED TRACTORS ABOUT 35 YEARD AGO IN HIGH SCHOOL SHOP CLASS AND I KNOW MATERIALS HAVE CHANGED A LOT. I’VE BEEN STRIPPING W/ WIRE BRUCH WHEELS AND SANDING WHEELS. THOUGHT I WAS DOING GOOD BUT I’M NOT SURE THAT I’VE DONE THE RIGHT THING. (NOTICING SOME SCRATCHES) I DIDN’T WANT TO SAND BLAST THE TRACTOR BECAUSE OF SAND GETTING INTO PLACES IT SHOULDN’T BE; (BEARINGS, SEALS, ETC.) I’VE BEEN SAND BLASTING SMALL PARTS THAT I’VE REMOVED AND WIREBRUSHED/SANDED EVERYTHING ELSE. I WANT THE BEST PAINT JOB I CAN DO MYSELF USING A HVLP SPRAY GUN. AM I DOING THE PREP WORK RIGHT, AND ROD, YOU SPEAK HIGHLY OF MP 170 EPOXY PRIMER W/ 182 SANDABLE SURFACER USED TO FILL SCRATCHES AND MINIMAL PITTING, WHAT LINE OF PAINTS, (PPG, DUPONT, ETC.) MAKES THESE PRODUCTS? ALSO WHAT LINE OF PAINT DO YOU RECOMMEND, A URETHANE? MANUFACTURE, USING MIDDLE TO UPPER PAINT GRADE LINE, TO GET A SMOOTH, HIGH GLOSS SHINE, WITH REAL GOOD DURRABILITY. KINDA LONG BUT I WANTED TO COVER ALL MY CONCERNS! NOTE, I POSTED A PICTURE OF HER ON Parts and Pieces Gallery THANKS KCSUPERMMAN

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Cliff Neubauer

08-23-2004 16:52:11




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to KCSUPERMMAN, 08-22-2004 13:54:20  
As the others have said the Omni MTK single stage urethane is great paint for tractor"s. I used to use CIH Iron Guard paint on tractor"s and didn"t see the point in spending twice as much for automotive paints until I tried it a couple years ago and now I won"t go back to the old enamels. Depending on how good the prep work the urethane will give as good of a paint job as you could dream of although I think the base coat/clear coat paints will give a slightly glossier look and will hold up better to sunlight.

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Cliff Neubauer

08-23-2004 16:51:40




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to KCSUPERMMAN, 08-22-2004 13:54:20  
As the others have said the Omni MTK single stage urethane is great paint for tractor"s. I used to use CIH Iron Guard paint on tractor"s and didn"t see the point in spending twice as much for automotive paints until I tried it a couple years ago and now I won"t go back to the old enamels. Depending on how good the prep work the urethane will give as good of a paint job as you could dream of although I think the base coat/clear coat paints will give a slightly glossier look and will hold up better to sunlight.

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Dozerboss

08-23-2004 23:26:24




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 08-23-2004 16:51:40  
Cliff,
I have to disagree on the clearcoat holding up better in sun. Too many peeling clearcoats going down the road. Take that with a grain of salt, our refinsh paints aren't the same formula as factory finishes. There suppose to be as close as possible but inferior to baked on factory paints i heard somewhere. The gloss is better on most CC colors--some don't shine until the right sun light hits them though. A friend ordered a ford truck in navy blue metalic CC and it looks closer to black. Not what he wanted or expected from the chip sample. A urethane is better in sun and resistance to oil and fuel spills. Evenually it will fade but, Better to fade out than peel away. Fade can be repainted, peeling means stripping again and losing your epoxy base. That's my report and i'm sticking to it.

Forgot this ...make sure you use a wax and grease remover on your parts before painting.

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jonesy

08-22-2004 19:38:43




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to KCSUPERMMAN, 08-22-2004 13:54:20  
Im using the Nason system on a 53 Super M as we speak. Ive been a fan of the 2K Urethane since I painted a Grand-pre GoKart body with it. I used the urethane primer and paint. The finish looks like a clear coat after it dries and is hard as a rock. When rubbing cars during the race all the other competitors paint ended up on my car and it rubs right off. THe Nason black still looks like new. I take a little more caution these days when spraying it. I cover up as much as possible, wear eye protection and use a good 3M resporator with prefilters. It says it gets 95% of ISO's. If I painted alot I would get a fresh air system but as little as I paint my exposure is small. The Nason 2K paint is explained to me as the Dupont Emron stepchild @ half the cost. I payed $150/ gal, $35 Hardener, $20 reducer. Im no pro but Im a big fan of Nason.

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CNKS

08-23-2004 06:18:01




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to jonesy, 08-22-2004 19:38:43  
Pre-filters are for dust--they do nothing for iso's. 95% -- maybe, if it fits perfectly, which I doubt if it does. As you continue to paint with iso's you WILL develop a sensitivity to them as the effects are cumulative. Sort of like lead poisoning, only worse.



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Rod (NH)

08-22-2004 18:19:50




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to KCSUPERMMAN, 08-22-2004 13:54:20  
Hi KC,

You are correct in not sandblasting assembled equipment. It's done and some swear by it but I consider it too risky (from past bad automotive experience) and only blast completely disassembled parts. The MP170 epoxy primer and MP182 urethane surfacer are in PPG's OMNI line of "economy" automotive paint products. They are good, cost effective products, in my opinion. NASON is DuPont's similar competitive line to PPG's OMNI. I have never used any NASON products but I am confident they are of similar quality to the OMNI. Within the OMNI line, you have a choice on topcoats of 1) acrylic enamel (MAE) w/o a hardener additive, 2) acrylic enamel (MAE) with a hardener additive, 3) acrylic urethane (MTK) and 4) basecoat/clearcoat urethane (MBC). 1, 2, and 3 are "single stage" paints that do not require a separate clearcoat. 4 is a two stage paint that requires a separate clearcoat for gloss and durability -- the basecoat only provides the color with little gloss.

In the OMNI line, the best choice from a durability standpoint is either 3 or 4 above. My personal preference is 3 rather than 4 unless one is talking a metallic finish, which would be very unusual for vintage tractors. However I would only recommend 3 (or 2 or 4 for that matter) to individuals that have (or are willing to purchase -- $$$) the proper forced fresh air breathing equipment. Otherwise, my recommendation would be the next best choice, which would be number 1. Number 1 is a better choice than the typical synthetic enamel "tractor paints" and "implement enamels". Your good health is far more important than that "more durable" paint on your tractor. The choice is yours though. A similar situation exists with the MP182 surfacer. The 182 is a two part urethane product requiring a hardener. It has the same health safety issues as 2, 3 and 4. If 1 is selected because of inadequate breathing equipment, then the choice for a surfacer would be the OMNI MP181 which does not require a hardener additive.

The actual painting goes the same as you knew 35 years ago. It's just that the materials have gotten better but are more hazardous to use. You may notice that with HVLP you will need to get a little closer and move a little slower than you might remember from the past. I recommend spraying a vertical test panel until you get used to it.

A good gloss comes more from a proper base for a topcoat that is properly applied than from using any special type or brand of paint or paint additive. The cheapest synthetic enamel can have an excellent gloss (at least for a while) while the most expensive premium urethane can be disappointing on a poor surface or if it is applied poorly. The next step up in quality level in the PPG line would be their standard (premium?) Deltron line of urethanes. Lots more $$$ and of debatable incremental worth on tractors -- other than for bragging rights :o).

third party image Rod

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Dozerboss

08-22-2004 22:27:44




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to Rod (NH), 08-22-2004 18:19:50  
I agree with Rod's total assessment taking into account what safety equipment you have. For me the acrylic urethane is "the" paint for equipment. It has superior durability and the high gloss i like. I painted a construction trailer in school bus yellow with urethane. The gloss is there even in the heavy yellow pigment. What a yellow submarine scene! Now the owner has a tough time when those chain binders have to be hooked and wants the pockets sprayed with tinted yellow bedliner. CC/BC is a great looking paint but not as durable. That would be my choice for a car that is garaged and as Rod pointed out it's a better look with metallics.

Metal treatments like picklex and rust removers that leave a zinc phosphate coating enhance primer adhesion to bare metal. Another product highly regarded by bridge maintaince and salt water ship painters for rust that can't be removed is a converter called Ospho. I haven't used it yet, but have heard enough good things I'm going to try it out on an undercarriage. I would use Oxisolv or picklex on all bare metal, than epoxy primer. That's not everyone's choice some feel the etch primers are enough. I feel an etch primer would be good enough for something like a disc or plow as it will be scratched again no matter what.
I don't like the regular etch, i like to etch with a rust remover like oxisolv or picklex, both will prevent rerust on metal until paint as long as it's inside.

Regardless of what paint you choose, the epoxy primer is the best protection and most important component of a durable paint job. Due to its chemical makeup it waterproofs metal by the way the individual molecules lay on top of each other like overlapping "scales". Other primers are porous and will allow water through their membranes, if the top coat is scratched rust can form under regular primers but not epoxy. The best thing for metal since paint itself was invented. For success you need adhesion. Follow the recoat times to the letter, you want the paint to chemical bond to each layer and this only happens within the time window of the recoat time. Butch recently had a good post on mechanical and chemical bond.

Those brush marks and scratches are a matter of patience and sanding the surfacer, that part of the job is the same. Just follow the data sheet for the recommended paper. PPG data sheets are online, i haven't mastered adding links like Rod. Now finer grits like 600 are available at ace hardware, you used to have to get them at a paint supplier.

I think any of the paint lines put out by Dupont, PPG or Martin Senor (Napa) are great choices. I switched to PPG omni after our Napa became a Carquest. I had excellant results with martin senor's euraglow urethane. Dupont is too far away but i have seen great paint jobs with there products at the shows. Omni MTK urethane is $75 a gallon, with hardner and reducer about $110 a gallon.

If your hvlp gun is a gravity feed, that will take a little getting used to compared to the conventional gun you probably used in school. You can't tip a full cup without the dribbles and you can't shoot upside down without a cup liner of some sort. Paint the hood and top surfaces when the cup is half full if you don't have a liner. Also if you don't have a holder or hook for it--get one. It's easy to lose a cup of expensive paint if the gun tips when filling the cup on a makeshift holder. What a great name for a tractor...FARMALL--marketing genius. Good luck, post the results.
Boss

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Rod (NH)

08-23-2004 15:10:51




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to Dozerboss, 08-22-2004 22:27:44  
Yellow submarine...you're dating yourself DB third party image. Great times though, weren't they?



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Dozerboss

08-23-2004 22:58:08




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 Re: CHOOSING PAINT FOR FARMALL SUPER M in reply to Rod (NH), 08-23-2004 15:10:51  
A Groovy scene man. Remember when s*x was safe and racing was dangerous? The 69 Mach 1 Mustang 428 Cobra jet is still in the family, painted with candy apple red urethane and so is the Boss302 Mustang never finished. Now i'm bossed around by equipment. :)



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