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Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer??

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Roy

12-12-2002 16:29:15




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Hi I am no paint and body man but I have tried to repair my tractor fenders the best way that I know how. They were rusty and had holes in spots so I sand blasted them to bare metal and then applied Nason Ful-Epoxy Primer. I then spent several months doing the body work and priming with fast drying laquer on the repaired spots. On close inspection I noticed some small imperfections that I used spot glazing compound on. All is sanded and primed over now with laquer. My question is Can I use this epoxy primer over my work again and finish with Acrilic enamel? My friend said to put the epoxy primer on and while it was still tacky hit it with the colored acrylic enamel. Will this work? After so many hours of work on these fenders I hate to screw them up. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Roy

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Dave Jameson

01-14-2008 12:46:46




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
Epoxy primer is one of the best primers on the market, although the Nason brand is of older technology. It works ok, but, in my experience, does not lay out quite as smooth or is as versatile as, say, PPG, for instance. The PPG system is designed to be applied over properly prepared bare steel, THEN the necessary body-work can be performed.ie: The plastic filler can be applied directly to the dry PPG epoxy primer and will actually adhere better than to bare steel alone. This also protects the body filler from moisture. The problem I see with the procedure you are using, is the use of lacquer primer-surfacer. Lacquer is a very poor product with questionable durability. When lacquer is used over an epoxy, there is a risk of lifting, especially if the epoxy film has been broken or scratched, such as when sanding body filler. The ideal procedure would be:
1. media blasting or stripping the old finish either by mechanical or chemical means.
2. chemically treating & conversion coating the bare steel(especially important with aluminum or stainless).
3.prime with a quality epoxy primer.
4. perform necessary repairs,ie. body filler.
5. re-coat with epoxy primer to cover any bare metal areas.( The PPG DP-LF series epoxy primers when mixed with DP 401 will have a pot life of 72 hours @ 70 degrees F).The Nason system is 8 hrs. if I remember correctly.
6. follow with a QUALITY urethane primer-surfacer such as PPG K-36. This primer has excellent filling properties & will fill as much with 2 coats as 5 to 6 coats of lacquer. A much better AND economical product. The initial cost is a little more, but it actually goes further. Less VOCs too to keep the Feds happy. I feel it is very important to stay with a particular brand & system within that brand.
7. perform the necessary sanding. If there are any sand-throughs, you can put an additional coat of DP over the entire area as a sealer to obtain a uniform finish ready for top-coating. With low-hiding colors, this is a very important step to keep from using an excessive amount of color to hide the substrate.
8. top-coat with your choice of material. The choices are nearly endless, but if you stick with a quality urethane product, the results will have you patting yourself on the back. The preceeding steps have ensured that you have an extremely durable undercoat that is chemically & physically stronger than most any topcoat that can be applied. Just as in building a house, if you have a strong foundation, the rest of the job will reflect that & last a heck-of-a-lot longer.

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siva kumar

05-07-2005 04:06:27




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
Dear sir, iwould like to know the procedure for painting the epoxy finish coat over the enamel painted surface

please give the answer quickly

regards
K.Siva kumar



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Jerry B

12-13-2002 06:52:16




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
I have worked with Nason and I can tell you it is very good.

I would do as CNKS says and sand the laquer. I wouldn't try remove all of it, just block the fender well to level all the surfaces.

Some say to let the E-prime dry 24 hours. General Motors lets their E-prime dry less time than that and look how their vehicles are starting to look after 10 years or so. The tops of the doors, fronts and tops of hoods and, roofs are shedding paint like a snake sheds it skin.

Next time you see a silver of metalic gray GM vehicle about 10 years old look at it closely and you can see where the paint is starting to peal. We call them "GM Pealers".

Anyway back to the subject. As soon as the primer is applied, You should apply the top coat. You don't want the primer dripping wet, just soft to the touch.

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Roy

12-13-2002 10:09:48




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 Re: Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Jerry B, 12-13-2002 06:52:16  
Thanks everyone for your comments. I have a better picture now on how to do my paint job. Thanks for your time.
Roy



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Jerry B

12-13-2002 06:51:32




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
I have worked with Nason and I can tell you it is very good.

I would do as CNKS says and sand the laquer. I wouldn't try remove all of it, just block the fender well to level all the surfaces.

Some say to let the E-prime dry 24 hours. General Motors lets their E-prime dry less time than that and look how their vehicles are starting to look after 10 years or so. The tops of the doors, fronts and tops of hoods and, roofs are shedding paint like a snake sheds it skin.

Next time you see a silver of metalic gray GM vehicle about 10 years old look at it closely and you can see where the paint is starting to peal. We call them "GM Pealers".

Anyway back to the subject. As soon as the primer is applied, You should apply the top coat. You don't want the primer dripping wet, just soft to the touch.

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Rod (NH)

12-12-2002 21:10:50




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
Hi Roy,

CNKS is correct about the epoxy windows. I have never seen any manufacturer's recommendation to topcoat "while still tacky" though. I would proceed with some caution there. The NASON product you mentioned has a minimum recommended one hour dry time before topcoating. See link. I always recommend following the manufacturer's written instructions. That's the best way to avoid unforseen problems that you don't want.

My experience with epoxy has been with PPG and OMNI, not NASON. They both have definite windows, after which scuff sanding and re-application of the epoxy is recommended for maximum adhesion. The NASON tech sheet is silent about maximum time before scuffing and recoating, saying only that for sanding, wait 24 hours. My feeling is that you would do best to scuff sand your fenders (even to the point of removing the lacquer as CNKS suggests), put on an overall coat of the NASON epoxy and topcoat with your acrylic enamel after one hour and before 24 hours.

Don't forget the induction period mentioned for time between mixing the two epoxy components and spraying.

BTW, your sandblasting and use of epoxy primer is the best preparation you could have chosen for your topcoat, IMO.

Rod

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CNKS

12-12-2002 18:11:26




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 Re: Acrylic Enamel over Epoxy Primer?? in reply to Roy, 12-12-2002 16:29:15  
Haven't used Nason, but most (all?) epoxy primers have a window (usually 24-72 hours) that they have to be topcoated in. Otherwise you have to sand and reapply. Obviously you are outside the window. Someone else can answer better than I can, but I would sand off all the laquer, reapply the epoxy, and then topcoat. I have also heard that you can "set the primer gun down and pick up the topcoat gun", which is another version of what you said. I'm not that well coordinated. You are ok if you stay within the window.

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