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Lesser Known Classics Discussion Forum

long350

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Lee from Pa

05-18-2005 06:26:40




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power steering has not worked since buying tractor used. I cleaned filter,inspected pump,cylinder and hoses. cannot verify pump output
this system shares reservoir. hydralics work ok. inspection of components did not find any damaged o rings which I replaced anyway. bypass valve in pump is not allowing free movement of steering. where do I look now?




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Rudy2

05-21-2005 13:53:57




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 Re: long350 in reply to Lee from Pa, 05-18-2005 06:26:40  
Hi,

I have a Long 445 that has similar problems. If you have cleaned the suction filter and feel certain that it is free flowing then I would have to say the pump is probably shot. It is a poor design in that it shares the transmisssion oil which is prone to water and metal partical contamination. I recently bought a remote resevoir from another Long model and will be doing some revamping of the steering circuit on mine soon.

Anyway, what you need to do is to "tee" a pressure gauge in the output line of the pump and see what sort of pressure you are getting when you work the steering wheel back and forth. Never "dead-head" a pump with a guage! Also, visually verifying flow of the pump really shows nothing other than it is still turning. The Long manual says the pump can produce up to 2,100 PSI. My pump has never been able to do better than 500 PSI which is adequate for power steering. Anything lower than that and it gets tough to turn the wheel. Note that you can rebuild the pump. You can machine or replace end thrust plates and O-rings and recoup some performance loss. I did this to mine and it worked great until more crap from the dirty transmission oil scored it again. Scoring of the pump body cannot be fixed without replacing the body. The suction filter used is really nothing more than a strainer and will not stop damage from small particles. Note that a scored pump will lose much of its ability to draw oil to the inlet.

So, buy an inexpensive test gauge in the 2,500 PSI range and do some testing. It is a good idea to "tee" into all pressure lines on your tractor and use them as a test ports. Plug them when you are not testing. You will find other uses for the gauge once you have one and it will eliminate guess work as you diagnose the system.

Randy

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mowr

05-19-2005 20:04:57




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 Re: long350 in reply to Lee from Pa, 05-18-2005 06:26:40  
A search of some of the various Fiat related models from AC, Cockshutt, Hesston, Oliver, Long, White, etc. in the discussion forums on this site might find your exact problem and the solution. Wish you luck!



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Jim in NC

05-18-2005 18:24:25




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 Re: long350 in reply to Lee from Pa, 05-18-2005 06:26:40  
I would loosen the pressure line at the pump to see if the pump is working. If it is moving oil, I would loosen the line at the cylinder to let air escape and tighten when oil comes through. Loosen the return line at cylinder to remove air, tighten and loosen return line on pump. In other words , bleed the system. I have done this to my 445 before. Make sure you have the correct oil. A nonfoaming one is a must. I use 30wt nondetergent in a 360 and a 445. Also, the filter you cleaned has a rubber washer bonded to one end of it. That end of the filter goes in the housing first. I once had an o ring plugging a valve in the hydraulic lift on my 445. Just wondering if you could have a blockage in the ps system. Good Luck!

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Bus Driver

05-18-2005 17:52:06




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 Re: long350 in reply to Lee from Pa, 05-18-2005 06:26:40  
My Long 360 has an entirely separate pump and reservoir for the power steering. It is on the right side of the engine up front up high. I am not familiar with the system described for your tractor.



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lee from pa

05-18-2005 20:48:00




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 Re: long350 in reply to Bus Driver, 05-18-2005 17:52:06  
Ok guys I loosened hi ps @ cylinder and had oil tho not pressure, removed suction or return @ pump and had no oil. apparently the lift pump is drawing oil away from the steering pump. why? and how do I prevent it? Is there a problem in hydralic system I may not be aware of? ie. bypass psi relief not working? what am I missing here?



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Jim in NC

05-19-2005 18:11:20




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 Re: long350 in reply to lee from pa, 05-18-2005 20:48:00  
I have thought about your problem off and on today. I really don't have anything new to offer. I have been wondering if it is possible that the ps pump may be sucking air into the system from maybe a pinhole in a hydraulic line or loose connection. I also wonder if there could be a blockage somewhere in the system to keep the oil from flowing freely to the pump. I guess the pump could be bad, but between my brother, I ,and a friend, we have had 5 Longs and have not had total failure of the ps system. I had to replace a seal in the cylinder on my 445 once and adjust the control valve. It seemed to take a long time for the system to fill with oil and begin working. I thought of an idea to maybe see if the pump is moving air, but you might think it is silly. It might tell you that the pump is really trying to pump. I wonder if one could take the pressure line loose at the cylinder and stick it into a container of water and see if it blows bubbles. This way you would know it was pushing air. Like I said, it sounds crazy. If the pump would move air, one would think it would move oil. One other thing...has your crankcase oil volume increased any during this time? There is a seal in the pump that prevents hydraulic oil from getting into the crankcase. My friend that has a 360 also just replaced this seal in his ps pump a couple of months ago. His ps system was not like yours. It had a seperate oil reservoir for the ps under the hood. His ps pump was taking oil from the crankcase and depositing it into the ps reservoir. He would have to drain some of it and then replace the engine oil. I don't see why it could do the reverse; rob oil from the ps system and move it somewhere else. A rear seal in his ps pump cured his problem. During this time, both his lift and power steering continued to work. The hydraulic pump also has a similar seal to perform the same function, to keep the hydraulic oil from mixing with the engine oil. Maybe there is something here that will help you. All I can do is wish you good luck.

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Lee from pa

05-21-2005 20:48:33




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 Re: long350 in reply to Jim in NC, 05-19-2005 18:11:20  
Thanks for all the info! here is how things worked out, after verifing no oil in the inlet pipe to pump I reprimed pump w/grease and filled pipe also. I was not maintianing prime long enough to fill the pipe. I was looking for something complicated before making sure I had the basic needs supplied. a much more simple solution was offered via email which was to place the tractor in a steep nose down postion, this allows oil to gravity flow into the pump.

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