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Lesser Known Classics Discussion Forum

replacing fan belt on International 3414

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Mark Deiss

10-07-2004 02:36:28




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Have International 3414 that am trying to replace the fan and generator belts. Have belts off the upper water pump pulley and have disconnected the front hydraulic pump/pto shaft to the crankshaft pulley. But do not have clearance to remove/install the fan belt between the crankshaft pulley and the chassis framework directly under the pulley.

What are people doing to get the belt completely off and back onto the crankshaft pulley?

Was looking at pulling the radiator and going in with a disk grinder to remove some metal on the frame under the pulley - but don't even have clearance under the pulley for that.

Tractor has loader and backhoe; don't know but suspect the front end metalwork may be beefed up for the loader compared to the B414 models (i.e. hope B414 owners don't have similar clearance problems).

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Mark in Maine

11-20-2004 14:13:14




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-07-2004 02:36:28  
Remove the set screw in the side of the threaded member that the fan is threaded into and attempt to unthread the fan.... Or remove the water pump (remove 4 bolts and you'll need to make a new gasket).



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jdemaris

10-08-2004 19:42:43




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-07-2004 02:36:28  
Why not saving yourself some aggravation and put on a link-belt. They work great and eliminate the problems your're having.



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Craig Anderson

10-07-2004 21:31:45




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-07-2004 02:36:28  
Well, I thought about this and had an idea which I relayed to a friend. We are both of the opinion that you will wind up popping the crankshaft pulley off the crankshaft. It really sucks when a manufacturer builds a piece of equipment around a V belt....and IHC wasn"t the Lone Ranger in that respect!!!



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Roy in UK

10-07-2004 23:36:50




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Craig Anderson, 10-07-2004 21:31:45  
Amen to that. We had a terrible job replacing a fan belt on an MF 1100 tractor. The hydraulic pump was crankshaft driven, held on by 4 little bolts that were a real pain to undo down in that "well" in front of the engine. We ended up fabricating our own spanner ( wrench ) which entailed getting a double ended spanner, cutting one end off it, using some sort of pipe over the cut off end to "start" them turning, then undo them 1 "flat" at a time. Because the tractor was multi power, the only way to move the crank around to get to each stud was by "bumping" the starter, (with a MP tractor you can"t rock the tractor in gear to move the engine around) what a job! We did try one of those "linked" belts instead ( like the old Caterpillars used to use ) but we could not keep it on the pulleys somehow.

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Mark Deiss

10-08-2004 01:35:59




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Roy in UK, 10-07-2004 23:36:50  
Ouch. Am really not looking foward to trying to pull the crankshaft pulley. Will take a closer look to see what additional problems this will create.

Also looked at possibility of removing the four front engine to chassis bolts and trying to raise the engine slightly to get the clearance. But there is just so much built into the engine/drive train/framework that doubt if I could safely raise the front of the engine enough (1/8 inch or so). Wondering if anyone had taken that approach and whether they succeeded. The front engine to chassis bolts are very easy to get to - two on each side of the engine block.

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Craig Anderson

10-08-2004 22:54:37




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-08-2004 01:35:59  
Well, the only problem I see here is wouldn"t you ALSO have to unbolt either the bell housing and/or transmission frame mounts in order to raise the engine??? I glad of ONE thing----- it"s YOUR tractor..... ..... ..... .;-) Craig



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Mark Deiss

10-09-2004 17:25:10




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Craig Anderson, 10-08-2004 22:54:37  
Yeah, sigh...

Visited our local Case(former IHC) dealership. They no longer work on industrials but talked to one master mechanic that had worked on 3414s. He was suprised at my problem. He has never had clearance problems. Pulled book and looked at pictures. Turns out our tractor has a welded cross plate (looks like factory installation) under the front "U" plate attached to engine block and extending out to mount the radiator. According to the mechanic, he has never seen a 3414 with the cross plate which is causing the problem. He recommended taking off the backhoe in rear and then disconnecting engine/rear drive train from loader/chassis frame and pulling the two apart to get the clearance.

(The sound of head banging against a brick wall).

Mechanic said it is not that big a deal popping off the backhoe and pulling the engine/rear end back from frame ~ a couple of hours if you have the lifts to support the pieces for separating.

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Craig Anderson

10-09-2004 21:27:10




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-09-2004 17:25:10  
"Mechanic said it is not that big a deal popping off the backhoe and pulling the engine/rear end back from frame" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Well, the mechanic might have SAID that but I say "Talk is cheap, it takes money to buy Whiskey!" A couple hours my a..... ..... ..... ..... .....behind!!!!
Craig

Popping the pulley off is NOT easier???



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Mark Deiss

10-18-2004 01:09:00




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Craig Anderson, 10-09-2004 21:27:10  
It was an educational discussion for me. Mechanic said that the 3414 was one of the easiest construction rigs he serviced and he went over the procedure for separating everything. Like you, I had my doubts... especially since I do not have IHC specialized tools for reaching those inevitable, impossible to get at nuts/bolts. Like Roy, we end up with a growing pile of home-brew bizarro-tools. Made a simple tool to help handle the water pump pulley flange.

For pulling the crankshaft pulley, he was adamant against it. Looking at it would require some clearance problems using a puller while engine was still attached within frame.

I went all over the front end after speaking to mechanic and noticed a horizontal pin mount on the chassis right above the bolster mount for the front axle. It showed signed of wear and had dropped down in the shaft about ~ 1/8 inch. Attached jack right behind the power steering cylinder and jacked up the cross frame till pin was now against top of the shaft (which raised the engine relative to the framework). Then had plenty of room to remove the fan belt. Seems like a strange way of securing the front end of the engine to the framework.

Thanks for your and Roy's responses.

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Craig Anderson

10-18-2004 18:11:37




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 Re: replacing fan belt on International 3414 in reply to Mark Deiss, 10-18-2004 01:09:00  
Holy cow!!! Talk about lucky!! Any Casinos nearby??? Glad you found an easy (easier) way out!!!! Craig



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