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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Amp Gauge Issues??

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ollie770

11-29-2007 16:00:50




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Oliver Super 55 has generator - 6 volt system. Seems to have no electrical issues and it always starts, but the amp gauge follows the throttle - higher rpms shows a higher charging and wide open maxs out the gauge. At idle it shows little charge or 0. I justed got my lights working and made a new light wire harness. When I turn on the lights, the amp gauge drops, at idle, it discharges and as you throttle it up, it begins to show a charge again. Is this normal? If not, would it be the regulator acting up? Obvisously, the generator is working as the battery is always up but the amp gauge bothers me. Any help is greatly appreciated!

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ollie770

12-01-2007 07:24:23




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
I checked my battery and it is good to go. I ran the tractor and if I ran it at wide open throttle, it showed over 30+ amps charging no matter what. Now I looked in my Oliver shop manual and it said for excessive output you should operate the tractor and generator at a medium speed and then disconnect the F terminal on the vr or genny and if the output decreases, it is a bad v.r. If it does not decrease, it is a problem in the genny. I did this and the gauge when right to 0 when I disconnected the F term. at medium speed. Sounds like I will be replacing the v.r. Thanks for everybodys input.

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Mike (WA)

11-30-2007 08:26:34




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
The VR on my 550 is strapped to the generator, and sits right under the "drip line" of the hood- so constantly getting water if you're in rainy country (like here)- my VR's only last a couple of years, and when I open them up, always the same- corrosion from moisture.



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rrlund

11-30-2007 07:32:01




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
Have you wired it yourself,or was it that way when you got it? The reason I ask is that the manual shows how to rehook a wire to bypass the regulator for winter use. It puts out full charge for the increased need for amperage in cold weather starting and the probability that it won't be running as long to put a full charge back in the battery at a lower amperage.



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John T

11-29-2007 19:27:39




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
Ollie, The output of a generator increases if it turns faster and/or you pump more current through its Field windings. Therefore, at higher RPM I would expect it to put out the max amps HOWEVER that can all be tempered n controlled by the Voltage Regulator as its function is indeed to control n regulate the gennys output which it does by regulating the Field winding current.

Increasing amps as RPM increases is exactly what Id expect it to do and failure to maintain a positive net charge (ammeter reads - discharge) at slow idle with lights on is also very typical.

If the gennys field were accidentally always dead grounded (bad VR or a short somewhere) it would always be producing the max current but would still increase charge as RPM increased.

That 30 amps sounds a lil high and I would expect that right after a start up but then it should taper down to less amps as the battery becomes charged UNLESS the VR is bad or the fields always grounded (stuck VR relay or wiring short etc) In the event it like ALWAYS STAYS AT 30 AMPS and ifffff fffff the battery is okay (a bad battery might always draw high amps) Id say the battery could overcharge and maybe boil over n outgas excessively sooooo o keep an eye on the electrolyte level and if any acid boils over or if theres a lot of gas escaping IT COULD RUIN THE BATTERY.

If the charge backs off after (dont stay at 30 amps constantly) a while I think the system is okay buttttt ttttt if it stays at 30 amps and boils over and outgasses badly Id be checking the Voltage Regulator and for any shorts in the field circuit cuz the regulation process isnt doing its job. Id expect a good battery to read 6.3 volts setting idle, but if the tractor is at RPM and the charging system all works it should rise to around 6.5 to the 7 volt or so range if the VR is working properly. Also some of those ammeters arent all that accurate or yours may be messed up so you might not even have a problem if the battery isnt showing signs of overcharging i.e. if it aint broke dont fix it lol

Let us know what you find

John T

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ollie770

11-29-2007 21:20:56




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to John T, 11-29-2007 19:27:39  
Thanks for the info everybody. I guess I will check over the battery water level and check it and the genny output with a volt-meter. So basically, if it stays charging the 30 amps all the time, its probably a bad VR and I need to do the motor test, and if it does not stay charging that high all the time, everything is good. J- I found the magazine with your generator article in it so I have that. I will test it on Saturday morning and post my findings.

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John T

11-30-2007 05:38:47




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 21:20:56  
Id say YES, if it stays at 30 amps charge constantly when hooked to a good battery even long after initial start up, the VR is bad or the field has a short to ground which makes her always at max charge despite what the VR may be doing.

As far as the Motor Test, I dont see that as even needed or applicable for now cuz the genny is obviously working fine if it can pump 30 amps into a good battery. The motor test is to see if the genny is okay (yours sounds fine) NOT the VR. You need to insure the battery is good and if so wait n see if that 30 amps charge dont back off after some time.

John T

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J Schwiebert

11-30-2007 14:11:46




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to John T, 11-30-2007 05:38:47  
John: Refresh my memory here. When you do the motor test and you ground the field the generator will change speed. If it only runs one speed is not the field grounded. I need to think on this a little more. J



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John T

11-30-2007 16:20:41




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to J Schwiebert, 11-30-2007 14:11:46  
When you operate the genny as a Motor, with the field post grounded (how I start the motor test) it should run slower and then if you unground it will speed up. It has to do with the back EMF which is similar to why the max motor current draw is at locked rotor but then as RPM increases current decreases. Since his genny is pumpin 20 amps I dont see his genny has a problem do you??? But of course, just as you and I both posted, if his genny had its field always grounded (In the genny mode now not as a motor) that will make her max charge all the time regardless if his VR is good or bad. This how you understand the motor test and grounded or open field post?????

Take care, fun discussion

John T

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J Schwiebert

12-01-2007 04:25:46




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to John T, 11-30-2007 16:20:41  
Good Morning John: I think we are pretty much in agreement. Memory is a thing that is slipping a little on this stuff since I don't do this anymore on a daily basis, but I was of the opinon that if you grounded the field and then took the jumper off (using 3 jumper wires) and the speed of the generator did not change in the motor test that you have a field circuit problem since in an A circuit generator it is grounded externally. I have an old Delco book that explains generatory theory. I have not read it since I taught Ag mechanics 30 years ago. I guess I need to read it again. Thanks for your imput. I enjoy it. J.

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John T

12-01-2007 05:47:33




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to J Schwiebert, 12-01-2007 04:25:46  
Yep youre right n yep we do agree. If the speed doesnt increase when you unground the field during the motor test, theres a field problem (cuz it should change speed as you state) although it could still be caused EITHER by an OPEN field (common where the 2 splice in the middle) or also cuz its SHORTED to case somewhere (at the splice or the output stud insualator got broke or elsewhere). It dont matter for purposes of the test cuz if no speed change its baddddd ddddd d.

I dont have one lick of Delco or Generator specs or data etc Im runnin on pure theory here (Im a nerd engineer rememebr lol) and would love to have some old Delco info.

Take care now, I enjoy techy chat

John T

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J Schwiebert

12-01-2007 06:33:46




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to John T, 12-01-2007 05:47:33  
Some time this next month or so I will do some looking at my information and probably be able to help you out. I also agree on the broken wire between the two field coils.J.



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J Schwiebert

11-29-2007 18:00:40




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
Take your generator off and do a standard motor test. I think you may have a grounded field. Have you hooked a voltmeter to the generator/ How often do you add water to the battey? I did a trouble shooting chart for charging systems and generators for Olivers. If you send me an e-mail address I will send it to you. J.



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Mike in MI

11-29-2007 16:49:59




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to ollie770, 11-29-2007 16:00:50  
I"d say your generator and voltage regulator are working fine. With your lights on at a low idle the lights are using more amps than what the generator is putting out it will show a discharge if idle is set too slow W/lights on. Mike



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ollie770

11-29-2007 17:55:16




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 Re: Amp Gauge Issues?? in reply to Mike in MI, 11-29-2007 16:49:59  
So at wide open throttle, should the amp gauge show over the 30 amp max on the gauge? It does this, if I turn on the lights, it goes down a little. I just didn't want to damage anything if it was over-charging the battery.



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