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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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77 starting troubles again

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Jeff Oliver

04-24-2007 20:50:43




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Here is what i have. 6V system, 8V battery. battery checks good according to the checker at NAPA, even used it to start a JD LA the other day. had the starter checked and the guy said it was good. Cleaned the ground connections and changed it to grounding on the frame. When I first try starting it it will turn over for a few seconds then die. Try to start it again and it acts like the battery is dead.

Now thinking the guy who checked the starter might have missed something I swapped starters with another 77 that runs and starts fine. same thing... Gonna try yet another battery tomorrow, if not that any ideas? I can always break down and put the 12V generator and stuff on it and convert it I guess...

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Codie

04-26-2007 06:16:08




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-24-2007 20:50:43  
I have a 770 that does the same thing some times. An hour on the battery charger always makes it start on the first try.



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Vito

04-25-2007 14:40:39




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-24-2007 20:50:43  
I had this problem with one of the 77's.I used a 12 volt battery with positive ground.Just reverse wires on amperage guage.This had a 8 volt battery that wouldn't spin it quick enough and the starter button would get very hot.
Vito



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RAB

04-25-2007 11:14:40




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-24-2007 20:50:43  
Diagnose - not guess!!!!

I would get myself a good (or even not-so-good) voltmeter and check out a few voltage drops, to find where the voltage is "disappearing". It WILL be somewhere. When you find those missing volts it will be across a resistance, whether it is inside the battery, inside a battery lead, inside the starter, across a connection or across the solenoid. Then I would look at what I found wrong.

A relatively accurate meter is much cheaper than another battery and should be around for future use for a long time. Another battery does not appear to be the solution.

Like I say, diagnose the symptoms and it will be easy to locate the fault. You will also find it will be getting too warm or too hot at that point.
Regards, RAB

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Jeff Oliver

04-25-2007 13:33:22




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to RAB, 04-25-2007 11:14:40  
Already have a meter and done that... Thats the other reason I am going with another battery. Something will come up I'm sure...



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RAB

04-25-2007 14:27:01




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-25-2007 13:33:22  
If you have done that, what are the relevant voltage drops around the circuit? They must add up to the emf of the source battery. The main load should, of course, be across the starter terminals. As power is volts times amps and the amps throughout the circuit are the same (unless there is a leak somewhere!) the load shared on each individual part of the circuit will be in the ratio of the voltage drop (of that circuit part) to the source emf. Whatever the emf (at zero current), the voltage drops in the separate parts of the circuit must sum to that emf when a load is applied. If they are not apparent in the external circuit they must be across the internal resistance of the battery. That is basic laws of physics.

Why not post ALL the information. We might then be able to analyse your data and diagnose your fault area much more easily than just guessing in the dark!

Further, if you have done that, and ascertained the problem is with the battery, why post at all?

That battery should have a very low internal resistance (that is why a lead acid battery has a huge current at short circuit - it is not limited at a lower value because the internal resistance is the only resistance in the circuit and is/should be very small). It can be estimated using a low value resistance. Not easy in practise, as the resistance value changes as it heats up, but that should be set out in the battery specification - as should the specified battery acid S.G. (the resistance of the battery electrolyte is a large part of that small internal resistance).
RAB

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JeffOliver

04-25-2007 18:14:02




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to RAB, 04-25-2007 14:27:01  
Changed battery,it worked.As for why the meter didn't show anything, i have no clue.

The reason I posted on here was to see if anyone else might have an idea or trick that I didn't know. Thanks everyone for the ideas and suggestions!!!



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El Toro

04-25-2007 04:02:12




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-24-2007 20:50:43  
I would install 00 battery cables. Hal



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rrlund

04-25-2007 06:58:18




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to El Toro, 04-25-2007 04:02:12  
That's 2.0 guage. I had mine made at the Agco dealer,one long enough to ground to the bell housing.Remember there are 3 cables,battery to starter button,button to starter and ground. You are loosing AMPERAGE through smaller cables.



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Jeff Oliver

04-25-2007 08:02:56




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to rrlund, 04-25-2007 06:58:18  
It already has 2 guage cables on it. All of them. Gonna try a new battery this afternoon. If that isn"t it we have other tractors to use the battery on anyway...



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El Toro

04-25-2007 08:14:20




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-25-2007 08:02:56  
A good way to check the condition of your battery is to measure the specific gravity of the battery electrolyte ( battery acid). It should read 1.250 or better and on all cells readings should be close to one another. Hal



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old

04-24-2007 21:20:48




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 Re: 77 starting troubles again in reply to Jeff Oliver, 04-24-2007 20:50:43  
On all my Olivers I have the ground wire hooked right to one of the bolts that is the starter mount, because I had the same type of problems. Also I'm guessing your useing the correct size battery cables. Also you could have a bad cable seen that more then once, they look good but on the inside they can be bad and not carry the amps needed

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