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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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4-150 hydraulics

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Dan-IA

08-07-2006 09:57:07




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So this tractor is still giving me fits. No remotes working, steering is all but nonexistant.
Had the valves all open again, replaced just about every O-ring in it. Tested pump pressure, got 2200psi. Have no idea about flow, but it sprays pretty good when the pipes are loose. Running out of ideas here. Had the pump serviced, got a new rotating group installed, to the tune of about $650. Was told everything else was in near-new condition on the inside.

Running out of ideas again.

Beginning to wonder if I can just stuff a spacer in there to prevent the unloader valve from opening. That might get me hydraulics, but it might get harder to start (oh well, small price to pay since this is my one tractor that will pull the v-ripper.)

Dan

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davpal

08-07-2006 21:12:10




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to Dan-IA, 08-07-2006 09:57:07  
Dan if you have an Agco or just about any type dealer around have them send a couple of mechanics on a service call and troubleshoot the tractor. Sometimes the right guy who works on these things every day can tell you more in five minutes than you can discover in a week of messing around. It might cost a buck or two but I betcha they figure it out in less than two hours time. Good luck.



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Wrenchbender

08-07-2006 20:48:21




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to Dan-IA, 08-07-2006 09:57:07  
Dan, I've read through your posts a couple times and I think you've proved the pump is indeed pumping. I think you need to look at things one step at a time after the oil leaves the pump. Also if you could come up with a flow tester that would help with some testing.

The Unloader valve has been mentioned and that is the first place to check. The hose that it returns oil through is at the top of the control valve and is held on with a hose clamp. Remove the hose from the elbow and put a short length of hose on and run it into a bucket. Unhook the wire to the fuel solenoid so that the engine will not start. Have some one crank the engine and see what kind of flow you get from the hose into the bucket, it should be a large quanity. If it is, reconnect the wire and start the engine. As soon as the engine starts the flow of oil should reduce greatly, this is when the unloader valve closes. The specification for the flow while the engine is running is 200 ml/minute maximum, a 20 oz pop bottle is about 600 ml, that should give you an idea of how much leakage is allowed. If you are getting more flow than that the unloader is not closing. Did you pull the unloader valve and it's seat out when you were replacing o-rings?

That is the first thing to check, if the unloader is working we'll go onto the next check. WB.

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J Schwiebert

08-07-2006 13:30:15




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to Dan-IA, 08-07-2006 09:57:07  
You have me totally confused. You have 2200 PSi pressure and you think the unloader valve is faulty. The purpose of the unloader is to "dump" the pressure. So which of the 2 statements do you want me to believe? Also where did you check it to obtain the 2200 PSI? Have you checked the pressure going to the steering? Does your 3 point work? How about the brakes or PTO? Merlin is correct in that you should here the unload snap or click, but if it stays open you will not get the 2200 PSI. Your turn: J

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Dan-IA

08-07-2006 14:17:46




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to J Schwiebert, 08-07-2006 13:30:15  
We registered 2200psi with all the valves unhooked, the pump was connected through an arrangement of couplers and a single hose to a gauge, then on to a valve and hydraulic cylinder pushed to full stroke. After the cylinder, we pulled a plug on the reservoir and put a pipe in and added a hydraulic fitting for a reserve. No valves were connected at that point, at all. When the cylinder was moving, we had 0psi. Same when the valve was in the 'neutral' position, 0psi. I think that's because this tractor is an 'open center' hydraulic system. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As for hearing that click... Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. PTO spins freely for the first 5 seconds after startup, but after that it stops and responds to the controls. Checking brakes just now (I never use brakes, many of our tractors don't have good brakes) it pulled hard to the left once (tried to articulate the tractor), second time nothing. I went out and specifically listened for that click this time, didn't hear a thing. Can't speak for the 3-point, the arms were removed long ago. Lever is stuck in the cab, cable is gone.

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J Schwiebert

08-07-2006 15:02:46




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to Dan-IA, 08-07-2006 14:17:46  
Well so far so good. Now the valve you used to run this cylinder must have been open center, BUT your tractor is closed center. The reason you had close to 0 pressure when the cylinder was moving was because there was no load on it. Can you call the guy who did this just in case we need to know how big the cylinder was (bore and stroke) and how fast you were running the engine when this test was made? Now unless it rains yet tonight I will not get back with you what I want you to check on till Tuesdat evening I think. I have tomorrow pretty well planned if the weather man is correct. O. K.? J.

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Dan-IA

08-07-2006 17:02:58




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to J Schwiebert, 08-07-2006 15:02:46  
Cylinder is on a log splitter, 24 inch stroke, 4 inch bore. The valve does have a built-in pressure-relief, but the way we hooked it up is the way that (we think) bypasses the pressure-relief valve.

Engine RPM cannot be determined, tractor tach was broken when the tractor was delivered and hasn't been fixed. During the direct-pump test, throttle was near the bottom of the range (just fast enough to run smoothly.) The pressure did not appear to increase with the throttle.

When we reconnected the valves and used the remotes, the cylinder showed no movement through the full throttle range.

We have not yet put the pressure gauge on the power-steering line; we aren't sure where we can get the proper fittings.

I am told that this tractor is equipped with mechanical brakes, not hydraulic ones. Our working belief is that this tractor's 4 hydraulic hoses at the hinge are for the oil cooler and power steering only (one pressure, one return each.) But, again, this may be inaccurate, I have no documentation for this tractor.

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Merlin in NW Arkansas

08-07-2006 10:08:12




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 Re: 4-150 hydraulics in reply to Dan-IA, 08-07-2006 09:57:07  
Hello, Dan!
I am sorry to hear about all of your hydraulic problems. I really like the old White four wheel drives; they aren't fancy, but their price isn't, either!
I used to work on a lot of Oliver and White tractors with closed-center hydraulics. The easiest test was to install a different unloader valve. There are at least two different ones, and each uses a different gasket. It sounds like your pump is fine, but it may be unloading after startup. When you shut the tractor off...you should hear a distinct "snap" or "click" from the hydraulic pump, after the engine stops turning. If you do not hear this noise...then your unloader valve is not working properly. I hope this information is helpful!
Best wishes for a successful repair! Keep that old gray girl in the field! Too many folks think that all the tractors in Iowa are Deere's!
Merlin

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