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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Oliver 70 mag timing

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Bob M

10-19-2005 07:37:47




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Need advice helping a buddy set the magneto timing on his �new� Oliver 70. (Manuals are on order but are a couple weeks away�) Here�s what we have:

On the flywheel there are (3) marks: IGN-OIL, IGN-GAS and TC-EXH.

On the mag (American Bosch) there�s what I presume is to be a timing mark visible thru the small window near the bottom of the cap (a white line on the rotor gear). The #1 nipple on the mag cap is clearly marked and the plug wires are properly connected (1-5-3-6-2-4) in the direction of rotor rotation. The mag is hot and the impulse snaps nicely every 120 deg of crank revolution.

Using the �thumb in the spark plug hole� to find the compression stroke on #1, have tried setting the mag so the impulse snaps at each of the 3 marks on the flywheel (i.e. when each mark aligns with the �V� notch in the inspection opening.) Timing was verified using a timing light hooked to #1 and cranking the engine.

However the engine will only pop out of the carb and exhaust at each possible timing setting - it will not fire and run. It has good compression on all 6 cylinders. The carb appears to be OK (not flooding and it is feeding gas). Plugs and ignition wires (solid copper) are new. Shutting off the gas and giving it a whiff of ether thru the carb still only gets us popping so it�s not a flooding or fuel starvation problem. Even pulling the tractor (so the crank is spins 600+ RPM) gets us only popping. It apparently is firing on all cylinders as all 6 plugs became quite warm after pulling for a minute or two.

Appears as though the timing way off. Is there another timing mark we should be using, are we timing to the wrong cylinder, or are we doing something else wrong here??

Any help is appreciated! �.Bob M

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tom upton

10-19-2005 20:56:56




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Bob M, 10-19-2005 07:37:47  
#1 is at front of engine. Timing gears are timed with #6 at top dead center. Ign timing is with #1 coming up on compression stroke and appropriate timing mark on flywheel in line with vee in timing hole. This is the case with ALL 70"s



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marvin

10-19-2005 19:23:17




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Bob M, 10-19-2005 07:37:47  
in my shop manual it said to turn the crankshaft to the top dead center of compression of No 6 cylinder and time from there.



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john holcomb

10-19-2005 11:24:02




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Bob M, 10-19-2005 07:37:47  
Are you sure you have it right? On most 70's the number 1 cylinder is the back one closest to the gas tank. You can make them run the other way but the timing marks won't line up right and they don't give much power. This why you see so many with the side curtains cut out so the distributer can be tipped way out so they will run.



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Bryce

10-19-2005 18:32:24




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to john holcomb, 10-19-2005 11:24:02  
All of the 70s i have ever worked on #1 was at the front,including the pulling tractor .As far as the side curtains cut away for the distributor???The dist. turns independent i.e.ccw,cw of the flange so why would anyone have to cut away sheetmetal. Why are you losing power, the distributor cannot tell which plug wire goes where therefore as long as the timing is in the correct sequence and going to the proper cyl. there will be no loss of power due to the dist.

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Texas Denny

10-19-2005 13:54:21




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to john holcomb, 10-19-2005 11:24:02  
John, my eybrows almost went clean over the top of my head. I timed my 70 with the #1 being in the front. It runs fine, starts good and has power as I think it should. My tractor is a 1936 but my engine is 1941. I did have a lot of coughing, back firing and sputtering before I got it going. Since it is a six, there is a lot less adjustment area than for a 4 cylinder.

I've never heard of or seen an engine with number 1 next to the flywheel. I always see them on the fan end.

Can you tell me more on this. Was it some engines? What years was this?

My only manual is for the Oliver Super 77 which very clearly has #1 in the front.

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RAB

10-19-2005 14:49:12




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Texas Denny, 10-19-2005 13:54:21  
Sounds to me that the mag has been timed 180 degrees out, making it appear that #6 is first.
Convention was that #1 was adjacent to timing gear.
Regards, RAB



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RAB

10-19-2005 14:49:05




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Texas Denny, 10-19-2005 13:54:21  
Sounds to me that the mag has been timed 180 degrees out, making it appear that #6 is first.
Convention was that #1 was adjacent to timing gear.
Regards, RAB



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Bob M

10-19-2005 14:31:20




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Texas Denny, 10-19-2005 13:54:21  
Well the 70 we"re messing with is a "37. It"s the first engine I"ve ever run across with #1 cylinder at the flywheel end of the engine. But clearly this is the way this particular engine is laid out.

Incidentally I grew up with several 4-digit gas Olivers (1600, 1650, 1750, 1800, 1850). All had the #1 cylinder in front - same as your Super 77.



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Bryce

10-20-2005 18:56:25




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to Bob M, 10-19-2005 14:31:20  
Bob,not to be a wiseacre but after looking at all of my 70s I am sorry to tell you but they do count from the front to the back not the other way. The only reason I do this is there are others that read this and I don't want them mistaking your interpretation of the cylinder numbers for being 180 degrees off.Again I don't mean to offend.



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Bob M - success!!

10-19-2005 13:53:25




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to john holcomb, 10-19-2005 11:24:02  
After rearranging the plug wires around to account for #1 cylinder being at the BACK of the engine, the old 70 fired up on the first try and now runs great.

Never would have got it without your advice....thanks John!!



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Bob M

10-19-2005 11:48:26




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 Re: Oliver 70 mag timing in reply to john holcomb, 10-19-2005 11:24:02  
John - If #1 is the rear cylinder that would certainly explain our problem! We just assumed #1 was the one in front. (We"re both Farmall guys - this old Oliver is something new to us...)

We"ll check it out. Thanks!!



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