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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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77/88 Carburetors

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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 12:24:49




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After ordering manifolds and a Zenith replacement for a MS TSX 363 carb for my 1950 77 Row Crop, I find that my old manifolds are off an 88. Guess someone put either an 88 head, or whole engine, into the 77 (I know, should have pulled the old ones and checked the #s first). My questions include whether the TSX 363 carb replacement will provide enough fuel for an 88 engine. The studs on the Zenith are smaller than the MS studs (whatever TSX it was, when are the tags ever on the carbs?), but the spacing on the studs lets the Zenith fit to the old manifold. Do the Zenith replacements usually have smaller studs than the MS carbs? Will the Zenith work ok once tightened up with lock washers, or will it shift? Anyone know? I'd rather not have to mount a $200 carb and then find out it doesn't work out (after it can't be returned). Thanks for any help.

Ed

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dan m

05-09-2005 20:19:28




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to Ed Haertel, 05-09-2005 12:24:49  
why not just rebuild your ms . also you mentioned flooding after a few days. if you have a viton tipped needle valve , and a copper fuel line , you will have this problem with any make of carb.



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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 20:30:46




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to dan m, 05-09-2005 20:19:28  
Hmm, interesting. Just got done looking for rebuild kits and noticed one source promoting viton float needles as preventing the MS flooding. What does the copper fuel line have to do with it? I have both copper and rubber (installed an in-line shut off valve so I wouldn't have to drain the 20 gallon fuel tank - I think this is not a standard 77 tank, either - when the fuel cock/sediment bowl started seeping when shut).

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dan m

05-10-2005 19:22:48




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to Ed Haertel, 05-09-2005 20:30:46  
supposedly, the copper ionizes the gas, and this has an effect on the viton seat. i don't completely understand it, but i have experienced it more times than i would like to mention. try taking the copper out of the line, and see if it works. let me know i'm curious. like i said i've seen it numerios times. hope it works.



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770

05-09-2005 14:50:34




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to Ed Haertel, 05-09-2005 12:24:49  
Someone correct me if I"m wrong.....A tsx363 is from a 77 engine. A 77 and 88 carb are NOT interchangeabledue to the mounting studs are spaced different.



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old

05-09-2005 19:46:08




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to 770, 05-09-2005 14:50:34  
The mountings on the 77,88,S77 and S88 are the same I have a carb from a S88 on a 77 right now but, and heres the thing the linkage is a little differant on them.



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770

05-14-2005 08:40:20




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to old, 05-09-2005 19:46:08  
I measured the mounts on my 77 and s88 and the s88 is wider....What gives???



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old

05-14-2005 09:12:36




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to 770, 05-14-2005 08:40:20  
Might be a late/ early issue. I.E. at times the change things from say a 1949 tractor to say a 1955 tractor and that maybe what has happened. My 77 had a TXS 363 on it and I went to a TSX374 I think been awhile since I did that. Also I may have been wrong as far a the Super carbs fitting, but the fleetlines do switch. I.E. carb from a 77 will fit on an 88 or the other way around.



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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 20:24:29




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to old, 05-09-2005 19:46:08  
That will be the good thing about the Zenith, all of the linkages are adjustable since it is intended to replace a different brand carb. If the studs on the Zenith were as large as the MS, the carb might not fit the intake. As it is, the studs are smaller in diameter and they fit close to the inside of the stud holes in the old manifold. No movement front to back (of the tractor), but the larger stud holes do allow the unbolted carb to move a little when pushed side to side (but only on one end or the other, not both at the same time). With the bores of the 2 carbs being the same (or so close it would take a dial caliper inside measurement to tell for sure), it just might work out OK.

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A.P.

05-09-2005 16:57:35




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to 770, 05-09-2005 14:50:34  
The 77 and 88 have the same mounting pattern/spacing for bolting the carb to the manifold. The 770 and 880 used a wider pattern than the earlier models.

What are the numbers cast on the side of the block (right side if memory serves)?



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Ed Haertel

05-10-2005 16:31:40




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to A.P., 05-09-2005 16:57:35  
The numbers on the block (position from the seat): Right side- date 3 18 49 (not off the wall for a low 800th 77 off the 1950 line)

Left side - above the starter - T 90320 K 100C

Head: Left Side top - 190002C K 180

Ed



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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 20:17:00




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to A.P., 05-09-2005 16:57:35  
Well, it's dark now and I'll go down the pasture (surely tractors never break down at the barn) tomorrow and get the casting/part numbers. I know the block casting was dated in 1949. Strikes me that there is a 1000 number cast into the left side (as you sit in the seat) of the block. I'll post all numbers tomorrow and maybe you can tell me if whoever replaced the entire engine with an 88 engine, or just the head. Thanks.

Ed

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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 16:25:51




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 RE: Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to 770, 05-09-2005 14:50:34  
As I pointed out, there was no tag on the MS. As there isn't a "shield" on the engine stating which model it belongs to (or at least the head), I sort of believed the engine (or head/manifolds/carb) was the original engine or head on the 1950 77. I can't tell one MS TSX from another without the tag, and none of the 3 tractors I own with MS carbs had a tag on the carb when I bought the tractor. So I ordered a rebuilt TSX 363. Unfortunately, none were available and I settled for a replacement Zenith. The TSX 363 replacement Zenith studs do fit into the stud holes of BOTH the new 77 intake manifold (which is going back for a new 88 manifold) AND the old 88 intake manifold. I'm not saying the studs are perfectly centered in those holes. As there is a difference in that spacing, I guess this is because the studs on the Zenith are a smaller diameter than the studs on the MS carb.

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old

05-09-2005 14:34:07




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 Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to Ed Haertel, 05-09-2005 12:24:49  
My first question would be why a zenth carb, why not get another MS. The MS doesn't cost more and in my book are better carbs.



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Ed Haertel

05-09-2005 16:30:43




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 RE: Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to old, 05-09-2005 14:34:07  
As I explained, no rebuilts were available for the MS (I thought I had) and I (foolishly, as it turns out) thought I'd at least be getting the tractor back into service. And maybe, just maybe, I would no longer have the @#$%@#$%^*I{* carb flooding to deal with every time the tractor set a month without being used.

Ed



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old

05-09-2005 18:53:05




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 Re: RE: Re: 77/88 Carburetors in reply to Ed Haertel, 05-09-2005 16:30:43  
I can understand your problem, been there a few times. I have a Super 88 with a zebth carb and if it messed up I'd go back to a MS but sine it starts so well at this time I will not. Have you ever checked with value bilt about a carb they have the right ones for what you need. If you haven't drop me an e-mail and I will give you there phone number



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