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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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How can i get my 1655 started?

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Josh H

03-15-2005 10:21:05




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I recently bought a 1655 that was said to be a little hard to start when its cold. I think a better description would have been impossible to start without either. I HATE to use either on it, but so far have not been able to get it started without either. I noticed the battery cables are pretty small (4 ga?) so I was going to replace them in hopes of having it crank a little faster. Once the tractor is started it runs real well, has good power, and doesnt smoke. I also thought about pulling the injectors and having them checked out. Will it hurt to leave it plugged in over night? A few hours doesnt seem to help the tractor start. Anything else i can check? The manifold heater works, but doesnt get the tractor started. Its supposed to have 1000 hours on a major rebuild. Thanks for the advice.
Josh

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CEB

03-18-2005 10:10:03




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
Josh,

J. Schweibert is right. You shouldn't have to worry about starting aids like ether and manifold heaters for sure down to 32 above and maybe even colder if everything is right on your tractor.
I had the same problem with my 1655. Always start with the easiest and cheapest solutions first. Having good batteries and cables as well as a good starter would be first. You mentioned checking the injectors. That's a good idea. You can pull them out without having to pull the engine apart. Have them tested. If the breakout pressure is not at least 2500-2600 PSI and they don't chatter (mist) when tested, then they can be the cause of hard starting. If you do all of the above including replacing bad injectors and it doesn't help, then I'm afraid you'll need to tear the engine apart. You could have a broken ring like someone else suggested or a just plain tired engine with low compression. Another possibility is that your exhaust valve seats are recessed too far in the head from wear and will need to be replaced. If you have to tear the engine down, then you might as well do a complete rebuild.

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alberta dave

03-16-2005 07:31:05




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
Does the pre-heat coil in the intake work? My 1650 always needed the pre-heater whether it was warm, cold or in between.



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Pawel

03-15-2005 19:58:19




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
Hi Josh H.

I have a 1650 diesel (direct injection) same as a 1655 engine with just under 1000 hrs on a major rebuild too! When I bought it it was hard 2 start, but an cash cropper friend who deals with alot of machinery told me to run it doing some hard plowing or something for a while and see if it started better after that.

I put some injector cleaner/fuel conditioner in it, pulled a 5 furrow plow in 2nd gear wide open in heavy clay, and plowed about 40 acres that way. It had always run really clean before this, but once I started, sparks and carbon poured out of the stack, and when I was done, it started just like a new machine.

If I were you, that's what I would do B4 I pulled the injectors out or something.....if you do that, its likely you'd have to rebuild your pump as well, injectors and pumps like to be replaced together.

Anyway, I hope this helps you out, if you have anymore questions send me a line at [email protected]

God bless,

Pawel

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WFE

03-15-2005 17:53:32




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
If electrical items check out, do a compression test. You can also have your nozzles tested at the same time. If you don't fully know or trust the source of the engine rebuilder, or maybe even if you do, that doesn't rule out that there could be a broken ring on a piston that has scored a sleeve resulting in low compression. A healthy 283 diesel or even 310 should start without ether well down to the zero mark, even without a coolant heater. And if you have used ether, the chances of a broken ring could be greater. Really you need 3 things to make this thing start well: proper cranking speed (around 150 rpm on these engines) and longevity, compression, and proper fuel delivery/atomization. Are you using blended fuel or an additive?

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Edchainsaw

03-15-2005 17:34:49




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
Gee the same guy that sold you yours must have sold us ours...

it does the same thing... we replaced the heater button with a big can of either.. used that up over the years (6) and ya its a bear --- I have a heat sensing plugin that I pulg the block heater up to in the winter below 40degrees it works .. above your on your own.



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J. Schwiebert

03-15-2005 12:32:57




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
How much smoke and color smoke are you getting when it is cranking. Do you have a voltmeter? Check the voltage at the starter and see what you have less than 10.5 and you have a definate problem in the electrical system. How does it run 30 seconds after it starts? Do you have a good grade of fuel in the tank? Start there and get back with us. How far do you have to pull it to start it? Questions?

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Josh H

03-15-2005 16:24:41




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to J. Schwiebert, 03-15-2005 12:32:57  
It smokes white smoke while its cranking and once it gets started it smokes a TON of white smoke. It smokes for about 10 minutes if it is a cold start (first one on a cold day). It runs rough for a few minutes, and it seems to run real rough if you use either on it to get it started. I am not at home, I'm at school so I can't test the electrical system for a week or so, but it seems to crank at a decent speed. Thanks for the help.
Josh

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Edchainsaw

03-15-2005 17:38:20




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 16:24:41  
thats just the way ours does too.. the pump and injectors were checked and cleaned when the either kit was installed (at a white dealer--Tate Farm Equp: stewardson ILL)

we have put new wires on it too.. ours is just plain hard to start when its not warmed up.



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Jerry from East Iowa

03-15-2005 20:24:53




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Edchainsaw, 03-15-2005 17:38:20  
Hi
Since when do injectors and pumps need to be changed together? (I wish someone would have told me that years ago, I could have made a lot more money!!) I'm asking what seems to be a stupid question, but how long has it been for the filters,(air and fuel)what blend is the fuel or are you using additive,CCA of batt.,etc. What kind of engine heater are you using , is it that heater in the water elbow, they don't do a very good job.Best bet is tank heater. (Thermo. control,and warm faster)If your cables are too light they will heat excessively.These tractors don't start worth a crap when everything is 100% and if it isn't then preformance goes down from there.If you have questions please call or [email protected]
Thanks, Hope I helped.
:) Jerry
Jerry's Tractor Repair
Holy Cross, Iowa
563-552-1615 or 563-590-1973

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Pawel

03-17-2005 08:24:43




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Jerry from East Iowa, 03-15-2005 20:24:53  
Hi Jerry,

No it's not absolutely imperative that you replace them at the same time but you will have to sooner than you would if you just left them the way they are. If you have a pump and injectors that are both equally worn, then you replace only the injectors, what happens? You increase the pressure on the pump by the new injectors, but its stil an old pump. The result is, you get more fuel leaking past the pistons on the pump,and consequently the pump will wear a lot faster than if you had left them alone. It would actually be cheaper to replace them both at the same time, less to rebuild, more time saved, less headache... Its kind of like doing a top-end overhaul on an engine that needs a total rebuild- with all the new power generated by your front end overhaul, its going to put alot more stress on the old crackshaft, piston rods, etc. Just my $.o2 worth :)

God bless,

Pawel

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J. Schwiebert

03-15-2005 18:28:14




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Edchainsaw, 03-15-2005 17:38:20  
You can take a compression test like WFE said but I will bet you a Big Mac you are short, probably 60-75 pounds per cylinder. Do you know what a cylinder leak down test is? White smoke like that means you do not have enough heat (comes from compression) to fire it off. Most will run oaround 300 PSi and if you get above 350 things get a lot better starting wise. I would go for a leakdown test. Questions/

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Jeff Oliver

03-15-2005 10:32:50




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 Re: How can i get my 1655 started? in reply to Josh H, 03-15-2005 10:21:05  
Might check the solenoid on your starter.I had to replace mine as it would act like the battery didn"t have any juice. Changed the solenoid and she spins right over.



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