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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Questio

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Ed(KS)

08-23-2004 10:46:05




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On Saturday, I drove my 1650 in the 1st "Annual Tractor Ride" from Ottawa KS to Williamsburg KS and back. It was sponsored by Power of the Past Antique Tractor Organization. The trip was about 30 miles round trip and about 50 tractors participated. Great time! It was great to get out with all the other tractors and a great way to get a nice highway workout with my 1650. My thanks go out to the organizers!!

One of the things I noticed is that I could not downshift, even with double clutching, unless I pretty much stopped completely. When attempting to go from a higher gear to a lower one, the gears would grind big time. I had another fellow tell me that is pretty standard for antique tractors with square toothed gears. I just wanted to check with you Oliver guys to see if you agree that a 1650 can't be downshifted. Thanks! Ed

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Transtar60

08-24-2004 11:57:48




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
The operators manual for the 1650 states the tractor must be stopped to shift gears.



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Russ

08-27-2004 16:23:43




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Transtar60, 08-24-2004 11:57:48  
TS60; The manual of course is right. However, in theory you could shift it at a maximum tractor speed, if a fifth wheel hauler pulled ahead of the beast then slowed down 2 or 3 mph directly in front of the WFE wheel set. The beast could then shift on the platform while still moving forward at maximum beast speed. Backing off the trailer would of course be a little testy. I think the square dancing tractor operators could pull this off the first time. Just a bit of foolish thinkin'. This is an almost professional thought do not (DO NOT) try this at home (Ever).

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WFE

08-23-2004 21:30:36




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
It is difficult to shift most, but not all, of these older tractors that do not have synchronized transmissions on-the-go, but it can sometimes be done on a 1650 and related series Olivers. If you try to shift while only in Under Drive or Hydra-Power Drive (low range), you'll find that it shifts easier when on-the-go.



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Don-Wi

08-23-2004 20:46:10




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
Can't say I've ever tried to downshift an Ollie, other than using the hydra power or over/under. Can't say I would want to try it either. Shifting up took me a while to learn, but I do it all the time now on my 1855.
Donovan from Wisconsin



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oliver gets it done

08-23-2004 21:14:17




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Don-Wi, 08-23-2004 20:46:10  
why would you be wanting to do a mess of shifting your not driving a truck good way to tear a tranny up put it in gear and ride



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Don-Wi

08-24-2004 19:45:58




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to oliver gets it done, 08-23-2004 21:14:17  
I don't shift a mess of times. When pulling wagons or such with our Ollie's I start in 5th, up shift with the over/under or hydra power, then shift to 6th and shift up again. With the 2 massey's (165 & 285)We have, it's really easy to upshift, as they have synchronized transmissions. I also use the Multi-power on those 2. When using the 165, you have to start out in 1st high(4th)if pulling a loaded chopper box. I was just saying that since the Oliver wereso much harder to upshift, it took me the better part of my younger years to master the technique on my 1600.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Ed (KS)

08-23-2004 22:06:49




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to oliver gets it done, 08-23-2004 21:14:17  
Don, I wasn't just out there driving and foolishly shifting so as to tear up the tranny! I was shifting for two reasons. First, I wanted to learn to shift through the gears to get a feel for this machine. This is my first tractor though I've driven lots of big trucks, tracked vehicles and tanks in my day. Ususally you can downshift when needed by double clutching and controlling the engine speed. The second reason was we were in a line of 50 tractors, some of which could only go about 8 or 10 mph, so when we would get spread out abit, I might get up into 5th or even 6th for short while and have to slow nearly to a stop as the line jammed up, so I just tried to downshift to a lower gear so I would not have to completely stop. I soon found out I couldn't do it without grinding so I quit doing it and thought I would ask the question here so I would know whether this was normal for the machine or whether there was a problem with my tranny. Thanks for the comment!

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Don-Wi

08-24-2004 20:09:45




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed (KS), 08-23-2004 22:06:49  
Never said you were, sorry if it came out that way. I know what you are talking about though with different tractors going different speeds. our 1600 goes aout 15, our 1755 w/ 18.4-34's went about 20, our 1855 w/ 18.4-38's goes close to 30. Our 285 and 165 Massey's both go about 25.
Donovan from Wisconsin



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Ed (KS)

08-24-2004 20:29:36




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Don-Wi, 08-24-2004 20:09:45  
Don, I made a mistake and replied to you instead of Oliver gets it done. Sorry for the error. Thanks for all the information you provided. Regards! Ed



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Don-Wi

08-25-2004 20:50:59




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed (KS), 08-24-2004 20:29:36  
Honest mistake. I try to give as much info as possible, so I'm glad I helped a little.
Donova from Wisconsin



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Geoffrey in KS

08-23-2004 19:58:59




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
Ed,
I wish I could have had one of mine in there, but I had to go spend the day working on a red tractor. I hope that 1650 is at the show in Ottawa. Stop by our booth sometime and bs a while.
Geoffrey



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Ed (KS)

08-23-2004 21:10:59




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Geoffrey in KS, 08-23-2004 19:58:59  
Hey Geoffrey, I was hoping to meet you last saturday and sign up for the Central States Chapter of the HPOCA. I met two of the guys from your group. I plan to be at Forest Park in September with the 1650. I look forward to meeting you and talking Olivers! Ed



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j meyer

08-23-2004 17:31:55




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
Yeah, that the nature of an Oliver. Our 1650 is the worst of our 3 Olivers when trying to shift on the fly. Just take the time to stop and shift correctly, its not worth grinding up your gears.



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Jim in IL

08-23-2004 13:39:14




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
30 years ago I owned and operated a 1945 Army Surplus GMC with a 5 speed "Crash Box" I do not know if it had square cut gears but it did not have syncros in any gear. The trick to shift up was "double clutch" by pressing and releasing the clutch while in neutral between gears.
To down shift was much harder. From neutral to the lower gear required feathering (slipping) the clutch while gradually increasing engine RPM with the gas pedal. Using the shift lever, the driver "Felt" the gears line up and finished the shift. I suspect, however, even these techniques probably wont work on older tractors.

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Stu D Baker

08-23-2004 14:54:29




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Jim in IL, 08-23-2004 13:39:14  
AS a teenage kid in the hill country of SE MN I quickly learned to shift a non-synchro transmission. We hauled wheat,corn and soybeans 16 miles to market with a 1946 Studebaker with a 200 bushel grain box. Six cylinders,four gears no 2spd. Missing a shift climbing a grade could be catastrophic because the brakes wouldn't hold it.If you missed 3rd you better get 2nd and keep it moving forward.
Our MM Z tractor shifted the same way,and we learned to shift up or down with the tractor moving,without grinding gears. You are the synchronizer,and the judicious use of brakes, throttle, clutch, and gear selection will provide you with happy motoring in your Ollie 1650. Remember to use underdrive hydro when shifting.

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SB in AR

08-23-2004 12:48:43




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 Re: First Road Trip, Shifting Observations and Que in reply to Ed(KS), 08-23-2004 10:46:05  
Your friend is right. Most antique tractors (and newer tractors too) do not have "synchronizers" in their transmissions (or sychronized transmissions) that allow shifting while moving. Most of the time you can shift up anyway (from 3 to 4, for example), but you can very rarely downshift. They were designed to be shifted while stopped.



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