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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Loader on 1755 still shudders going down

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PaMike

07-25-2004 11:06:10




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Bought a 1755 with loader. The loader shudders and bounces up and down when lowering it. The manual tells you to screw in the restictor in the back of the remote valve. I did that, but it still shudders and bounces. Any one else have any ideas of how to fix this?




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Pat

07-27-2004 09:13:43




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 Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going down in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 11:06:10  
Guess what, I know what causes your shuttering problem. It can be fixed using your existing valves for around $100 per spool. If you could convince Case-IH to give me the fix for their Newest and greatest tractors. I would fix your Grande ole Oliver for free. Funny how some things revolve round and round. Some companies are quick learners and others are retarded...I happen to have solved your same problem on a MM 55 series. You can have the heaviest load possible on the loader and have baby butt smooth control. Even have a good old MM with Autosteer, yes will drive itself. Works dandy and you would think Case-Ih could integrate it right into their Accusteer STX's but once again it is alot simpler to start with the basics. Have to battle it out on my own to Steer that new one. Funny the Difference between JD and (Case-IH, Oliver, MM, White all the same.)

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jason

07-25-2004 17:56:14




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 Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going down in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 11:06:10  
I had the same problem with my 1755 and loader. I screwed with the restrictor in and out, no luck. Higher engine speed helps some. My neighbor has a 2-85 White with same problem. I believe it has something to do with the valves used with this closed center system. I put a two spool joystick valve on the tractor, now it works perfectly. The new valve has better metering characteristics. I removed the steel line supplying the valves and replaced with a rubber line, then spliced into that rubber line with a t-fitting to supply the additional valve. Return from the valve can be plumbed into the back of the hydraulic unit, just remove the plug left of the top link. Mount the joystick where it's handy, also tie down those rubber lines as they will jump some when you activate the valve. good luck

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J. Schwiebert.

07-25-2004 12:26:22




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 Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going down in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 11:06:10  
How good are your remote couplers? How far did you turn the restrictor in? How fast are you running the engine when you let it down? What is in the bucket and how big a bucket do you have? I hope you do not tell me that you have single acting cylinders on the loader.



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PaMike

07-25-2004 15:02:14




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 Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going down in reply to J. Schwiebert., 07-25-2004 12:26:22  
I have good couplers, the hoses are rather long since they run from the rear remotes the whole way along the side of the tractor to the loader. Dont know if the hoses affect it. I played with the restrictor all over the place, right now it is in as far as it will go. If I run the engine at higher RPM it helps, but it doesnt solve it. Also if I lower the loader very quickly it doesnt shudder, just when I try to do a slower controlled lower. The bucket does have a very large addition on to it so that it can be used for snow, but the loader will shudder with bucket full or empty. The cylinders are double acting.

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J. Schwiebert

07-25-2004 16:39:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going do in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 15:02:14  
I guess right now I am the only one brave enough to stick my foot in my mouth. The way I see what you are trying to explain is like with any double acting rod cylinder more volume comes out of the base end when the cylinder is being retracted than what is going in the top end. In a sense you almost want the oil on the rod end to push the oil out of the base end for smooth operation. I need to sleep on this as I don't think we ever put a loader on a 55 series closed center. However, two things. I would get a flow control commonly called a throttle valve which allows free flow in one direction and by adjusting it you can restrict flow in the other direction. Second thing is, if you want to talk about it find on the HPOCA web site and send me a U2U. I might want to use this in my next hydraulic fundamentals class.

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PaMike

07-25-2004 18:40:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders goin in reply to J. Schwiebert, 07-25-2004 16:39:10  
U2U? Whats that? I was only thinking about the oil coming out of the cylinder,I didnt even think about the oil going in the other end of the cylinder....hmmm....you might be on to something. Are you a high school or college teacher? I have an Mechanical Engineering degree, and this simple problem is driving me crazy...



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Brendan Casey

07-26-2004 17:50:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 18:40:08  
To understand what is happening here read the article mentioned below - the subject is slightly different but the principle is the same. By revving the engine harder or stroking the directional valve further, more oil is available to the rod side of the cylinder. To overcome the metering shortcomings of the directional valve I would install a simple anti-cavitation circuit, comprising a low cracking pressure check valve installed between the tank port and the rod side port on the directinal valve. This check valve will allow oil in the tank gallery to make-up the oil volume deficit in the rod side of the cylinder.

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Wrenchbender

07-26-2004 06:19:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 18:40:08  
Mike I think J is leading you in the right direction. My 1955 acts similar when lowering my planter with the mounted splitter attachment. If I increase the oil flow by raising the RPMs it does not bounce. Have you backed out the manifold restrictor valve? It controls the oil going to the valves. The restictor on the remote controls the return flow from the base of the cly. I believe if the remote valve had a larger "feathering slot" in the spool then you could lower a large load without the bounce. WB.

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PaMike

07-26-2004 18:46:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudd in reply to Wrenchbender, 07-26-2004 06:19:51  
The manifold restrictor is backed the whole way out. Actually, it is frozen in that position. Does the screw act as the restrictor, or are there more parts internally that the screw pushs against? Maybe something internally is frozen too.



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J. Schwiebert

07-25-2004 18:50:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 18:40:08  
Go to www.hartparroliver.org and find where I replied to something and send me a PM and I will get with you.



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J. Schwiebert

07-25-2004 16:38:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Loader on 1755 still shudders going do in reply to PaMike, 07-25-2004 15:02:14  
I guess right now I am the only one brave enough to stick my foot in my mouth. The way I see what you are trying to explain is like with any double acting rod cylinder more volume comes out of the base end when the cylinder is being retracted than what is going in the top end. In a sense you almost want the oil on the rod end to push the oil out of the base end for smooth operation. I need to sleeve on this as I don't think we ever put a loader on a 55 series closed center. However, two things. I would get a flow control commonly called a throttle valve which allows free flow in one direction and by adjusting it you can restrict flow in the other direction. Second thing is, if you want to talk about it find on the HPOCA web site and send me a U2U. I might want to use this in my next hydraulic fundamentals class.

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