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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Normal after overhaul?

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Brian

03-29-2004 11:27:17




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I've got a 1655 diesel that was completely overhauled 200 hours ago (bearings, pistons, sleeves, injectors, pump, valves, guides, etc.) I had the block and head sent off to a machine shop to be inspected (didn't need line bored) and I did the assembly work. I've done plenty of ag engines, but this was my first 283 Oliver. I've done 4 oil changes now and each time I look at the filter (this is the replaceable 'sock' type element in the canister so you get to see the filter media each time you change the filter) I see small particles or flecks of gold debris. Some are just big enough to catch light and that's the only way you see them, while there are a few others that are larger, perhaps a millimeter in diameter, but flat, if that makes any sense. I am wondering if this is normal break-in wear, as I've never really been able to see the filter media of the other engines I've done in the past. There isn't what I would call a lot of this debris, but in 50 hours of running time, it is visible on the filter sock. What's normal? I talked to the previous owner and he said that what I'm seeing is what he has always seen in this engine, even in its younger days. It had almost 6000 hours on it when I got it, and he had owned it since about 2000 hours. What do you think? I hope someone out there can reassure me...

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Brad

03-30-2004 15:20:51




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
One other thing, if you overhauled the engine because of a spun bearing, and if it was not cleaned properly, it could have had debris in the oil passages and that usually ends in a junk engine. 7 main waukesha's are probably the most post-overhaul tempermental engines out there.



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Bob C

03-30-2004 10:17:48




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
The only thing that would create gold coloured flecks in that motor would be your four cam shaft bushings. Were they replaced in the overhaul? If so were they properly sized to cam? If they were replaced and not machined to fit, this could cause such a problem. Also, were the wrist pin bushings replaced and machined properly to the pins. I dont think bearing material would show in the oil sock as GOLD coloured. Just a thought.

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Brian from above

03-30-2004 15:48:13




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 Re: Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Bob C, 03-30-2004 10:17:48  
Thanks to all of you for your advice and voices of experience. Bob, the cam bushings showed absolutely no wear, so I left the old ones in and didn't have to touch the cam; did it just so I wouldn't have to worry about fitting the bushings because that can be a pain. I had not considered the wrist pin bushings. It is possible, though. I don't have the machinery to hone pin bushings so I had the machine shop that turned and balanced my crankshaft install and fit the wrist pin bushings. They specialize in racing engines, so I would hope that they knew what they were doing. I did check them when I assembled the pistons to the rods, and they seemed to be fitted okay (best I can remember) but they may have been a bit on the tight side, which I supposed was better than too loose. Still, I will entertain that as a possibility, which, I would imagine would subside as the bushings become 'worn in' to the size of the pins. Brad, thanks for your comments. You must be psychic because this engine indeed WAS overhauled due to a spun #1 rod bearing. Now that's experience... I would have thought, however, that that debris would have worked itself out after 4 oil changes. I threw away that rod and bought a reconditioned one which I then had machined to match weight of the other 5 rods. WFE, what you said makes sense. I'll check my engine mount bolts just in case. Guess I'll 'keep an eye on things' as you have all said. Love the tractor too much and the engine does run extremely well.

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Brad

03-30-2004 15:15:59




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 Re: Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Bob C, 03-30-2004 10:17:48  
the bearings used in most engines are a tri-metal construction, copper being one of the metals. this is where the gold color comes from.



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WFE

03-30-2004 08:12:07




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
I think Brad has probably hit the nail right on the head, generally speaking of the "7 main" Waukeshas, the family to which the 310 also belongs. It is difficult, without an oil analysis as J. mentioned, to actually quantify how much contamination you have. But to generalize, and to perhaps make you feel a bit better, I would say that if the relative amount of 'debris' decreases with each filter change without a drastic reduction in oil pressure, you might be okay. I've seen 310s do this same thing and last 3, 4, even 5 thousand hours. Their blocks are not the most rigid (not being a structural block) and the minute amount of torsional yielding that can occur seems to put more stress on the bearings; one reason why vibration is a cardinal enemy of the 310, and likely the other 7 main Waukeshas as well. I would be concerned, though, if the relative amount of contamination stays the same while oil pressure steadily drops, or if the amount of contamination suddenly increases. One quick easy thing to check would be to make sure your engine mount bolts are TIGHT.

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J. Schwiebert

03-29-2004 18:15:11




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
I am in agreement with those two. However it might be worth the 20 dollars or so to purchase an oil analysis kit or check with your oil supplier, take the oil sample and send it in. It can tell you what the metal is and then you can start to pinpoint things.



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Larry from MD

03-29-2004 15:50:52




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
Normally i see stuff that looks silvery.Stuff that looks gold would most likly be brass.I agree with brad keep a close eye on it.



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Brad

03-29-2004 14:58:14




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 Re: Normal after overhaul? in reply to Brian, 03-29-2004 11:27:17  
that is something that I have seen way too many times in a 7 main waukesha. it is probably bearing material, usually found shortly after a in-frame overhaul, but not always. normally if the linebore is right, and the crank and rods are reconditioned, it does not happen. I would keep a eye on the oil pressure, and if it gets low you might end up tearing it down again. You would not be the first.



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