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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Building a 310 Walkausha

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Brad

11-08-2003 20:12:44




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I am building a 310 motor and would like some input.
I will be pulling it in a 4mph class with a RPM of
2300.
Would like your thoughts? Stroke it? Bore it?
More Horsepower!

THANKS Brad




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Brad

11-15-2003 21:50:36




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
Just came up with some ideas for 4.25-4.375 bore pistons for the direct injection motors. will keep you updated. a good regrind for your cam would make a big difference, you need to talk to Vogel manufacturing in effingham Il.He is the best souce i have seen for diesel cam regrinding. headwork will also make a vast improvement. Not sure how much power you have now, but a bone stock rebuilt 310 NA will dyno 110 hp.

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Kent

11-17-2003 11:16:07




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 Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-15-2003 21:50:36  
I havent dynoed the 880, but the super 88 I had turned 95hp at 1600rpms. We pulled it alittle harder and went to 115hp. this was on a worn out engine(bad rings and bottom end). I am sure the 880 is a little stronger. Running the lower rpms is where we are struggling. We went to a few pulls this season where rpms were not enforced and ran them at 2700rpms.They ran excellant then,when the smoke cleared everyone wondered what hit them. But we run more rpm limited pulls and have to build to be competitive for them.

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w.s.

11-10-2003 18:29:05




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
If you get somewhere around 425 to 450 cubes you will be very competitive in 4 mph. You can get there for less than 5000 easy!!!! -D 19 rods work very well.



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Brad

11-10-2003 18:33:59




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 Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to w.s., 11-10-2003 18:29:05  
This motor I am building is a diesel.
I am putting it in a 880 to keep it in the antique
class.

BRAD



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Slowsmoke

11-11-2003 14:58:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-10-2003 18:33:59  
You might need to put it in an 88, some places will say an 880 is to new. some places won't allow a 7 main block . Good luck, Don



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A.P.

11-10-2003 09:55:21




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
If you are dealing with a gas engine, I would suggest machining the block for a larger set of sleeves. Go with a 4.25 bore (370 cubes) or 4 3/8" (390 cubes. If you wanted you could offset grind the crand to a smaller rod journal diameter, say 2.0" (77 journal) for 427 cubes (4.8" stroke).

What weight classes are you planning on pulling? A healthy 310 should pull at 4 mph half way down the track in classes up to 7500#.

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Jerry B

11-10-2003 06:20:18




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
Brad,
You can go to 600 cubes in an 88 block, therefor you should be able to get that from a 310. You will have to have the stroke increased BUT that will require you to use a smaller journal on the crank pin. I wouldn't go less that 2.00 inches, although some are going something like 1.75 using rods from a Mazda truck.

Bore increases are no problem as you will have to bore the block for larger/thicker sleeves. I have a friend who is building a 1750 engine and is shooting for a 4.5 bore. You will need longer rods and a custom piston with a very short compression ratio in order to keep rod angles from going extreme and placing too much side thrust on the pistons and cylinder walls.

I am using a 4.250 BBC piston in the 88 I am building. I will have plenty of room for water in the block becuse I am not taking things to the absolute maximum.

Your milage may vary. All the usual diclaimers apply.

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J. Schwiebert

11-09-2003 18:51:08




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
See there if you read WFE good comments, it all comes down to an old basic rule that said Horsepower gain may be proportional to the size of one's checkbook



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Shep Va

11-09-2003 18:55:39




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 Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to J. Schwiebert, 11-09-2003 18:51:08  
Its called cubic monitary displacement, the more money you put into it the bigger bang it makes when it blows..... ...

Just a thought....



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WFE

11-09-2003 17:02:02




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 Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-08-2003 20:12:44  
Contemplating building one myself just for pulling in the near future. 150hp stock is pretty attainable with no mod parts. If you're after more, as I will be, then I think we'll need 3 things: more fuel, more air, and more speed. 2300 is pretty slow for a properly built 310; for pulling you'll probably want to swing around or slightly over 3000 rpm. If there's a 10% rpm over limit, then you can go a tad over 2900 with this motor's published high no load speed. They had better not limit you with your 310 to 2300 rpm, or you'll be at a big disadvantage. If a slightly bigger turbo is permitted, it would help also. Shouldn't be hard to plumb that in. A pump shop can modify the pump for you, but that'll do no good without bigger nozzles in the head. I've heard of guys using nozzles out of a 466 IH and boring the head to fit them. Unfortunately with the 310, I don't know that there's a whole lot of room to bore and stroke it; there's just barely enough room for the stock crank to swing in the case, and the sleeves are not overly thick, but there might be some bore to gain. I am thinking the bottom end would have to be stiffened up to handle much over 150-160hp, with a stiffener between the case and oil pan, hardened or custom rods and caps, and more oil capacity if overfueling it like we're talking. Some possible ideas. Best of luck with the project, and if you get into it, please share your findings!!

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diesel 880 puller

11-11-2003 11:43:14




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 Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to WFE, 11-09-2003 17:02:02  
I pull in the classes that Brad is wanting to compete in. The rules limit us to 20% over the specific tractors high no load RPMS. My 310 is stock with only pump and injectors being modified. It does pretty fair but there is always room for more HP. Surely there is someone out there who can help us.



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A.P.

11-12-2003 01:25:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to diesel 880 puller, 11-11-2003 11:43:14  
Has either of you talked with Brad at Maibach's in Creston Ohio? He should be able to make some suggestions and help you find what you need.

$.02
A.P.



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Brad

11-11-2003 20:44:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to diesel 880 puller, 11-11-2003 11:43:14  
Hi Kent I figured you would be seeing this.
I hope somebody can help us.

BRAD



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Kent

11-12-2003 11:30:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Brad, 11-11-2003 20:44:32  
I figured you would know who I was. Yes we have talked to Brad Maibach,he said he would do some figuring and get back to us. That was quite a while ago(he must be doing some major pencil pushing). I mean nothing bad about Mr.Maibach but I was really hoping for some good news. I started pulling 13 years ago with a super 88 diesel and people kinda laughed at me. When I built the 310 they kinda stopped. I just need more tips to help stay competitive. As Brad stated all help will be greatly appreciated.

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BradM

11-12-2003 15:06:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to Kent, 11-12-2003 11:30:12  
I haven't completely forgotten about you guys, I'm just struggling pretty hard to find a big bore piston that will work in the direct injection engines. Are you allowed to run a deck plate in between the block and the head? it would make it alot easier to work with. nobody else has a piston that has a short enough compression height in the 4.125-4.25 bore range. if you could run a good sized deck plate (1-2 inch) it would be pretty easy to do. Also, as far as custom pistons go, I havent found anyone that has a diesel forging that goes below 4 7/16. I have had alot of people ask about this and would like to find a answer for them.

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Kent

11-13-2003 12:05:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkausha in reply to BradM, 11-12-2003 15:06:56  
I need to check the rules again, but I believe we are limited to 1/2inch on deck plates and 1/2inch on girdles. Would working on the cam and valve train help us much?



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Kent

11-17-2003 11:19:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkaus in reply to Kent, 11-13-2003 12:05:53  
I need to correct myself. I checked the rules and it is 1 inch above and 1 inch below.



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A.P.

11-14-2003 02:15:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Walkaus in reply to Kent, 11-13-2003 12:05:53  
If you are still running a 3 7/8" bore (310 cubes), I suggest you move up to a 4 1/4" (370 cubes)or 4 3/8 bore (390 cubes). Either would be a pretty nice increase from the stock cubes, roughly 20 and 26% respectively. Add a bit of pump, injector and cam work and you should have a tough running engine. I am pretty sure Brad can set you up with the pistons and sleeves for this. The problems start if you want to go larger yet.

Good luck,
A.P.

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Brad

11-14-2003 17:44:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 Wal in reply to A.P., 11-14-2003 02:15:50  
What would be the biggest set of pistons and rings
we could get that would work?
Brad would you have pistons for a 4 1/4 bore or 4 3/8 bore?

Thanks BRAD P



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m kuhns

11-14-2003 19:24:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a 310 in reply to Brad, 11-14-2003 17:44:21  
We have a 310 in our Super 88 Diesel running around 140hp without a turbo. Not real pretty though. The engine was cheap with only 350 cubes. The crank is offset stroked, stock bore, high lift cam, stock injectors, pump turned up and lowered the compression ratio. It has been real dependable. Hasn't been apart in the last 8 years except for bearings. We pull classes from 4,500 up to 11,000 normally and once up to 14,000 3.5 mph pace. Yes it is competitive, only finishing 2nd to our 2155 Oliver in the 11,000lbs class with 25 other competitors pulling a lot 1066s. No pace classes we normally run 3rd or 4th gear with the high speed rear. The power booster also helps and has handled the HP well. Your wallet doesn't have to be big to get some ponies. I'd be interested in building a bigger 310 though.

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A.P.

11-15-2003 16:03:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a in reply to m kuhns, 11-14-2003 19:24:13  
I would love to see it pull sometime. Where are you located? You must have had weights hanging every where even in the 11,000. What are you using for connecting rods? I can see 4.8" with a 77 rod (2.0" journal, that would be enough for 340 cubes at 3 7/8" bore. I would love to see what a big cube engine could turn out for power.

Take care,
A.P.



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m kuhns

11-16-2003 19:19:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Buildi in reply to A.P., 11-15-2003 16:03:24  
We use stock 310 rods with the side towards the cam ground off to clear the oil galley. Were located in Pa.



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Kent

11-17-2003 11:23:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bu in reply to m kuhns, 11-16-2003 19:19:35  
I am not very knowledgable about stroking a engine,but I thought when you offset ground the journal size got smaller. How are still using stock 310 rods?



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