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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt???

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Paul JOhn

10-02-2003 05:12:05




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I just bought a 1650 ckshtt diesel (direct injection) that had had a motor job done at 8500 hrs. The guy who sold it said that it destructed itself; it blew the camshaft out of the engine. I heard that this is pretty common for these engines, and I don't want anything like this to happen to mine.

Anyone have any sugg.as to what i can do to keep this from happeniong? Thanks, Paul jOhn




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Brad

10-02-2003 17:37:32




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 Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt??? in reply to Paul JOhn, 10-02-2003 05:12:05  
The biggest cause of connecting rod failure on those engines was either the 2 piece wristpin bushings working loose (these are replaced with one piece bushing) or the six point rod cap bolts. The problem with the bolt is that the bolt has a larger radius on the underside of the head than the hole in the cap did. this caused the bolt to tighten up on the radius rather than the head, breaking the bolt. these were replaced with a 12 point bolt and hardend washer. I would drop the pan and look to see what bolts it has in it and put 12 point bolts in if neccesary. (The 12 point bolts a torqued to 44-46 foot pounds)

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Paul John

10-02-2003 17:59:47




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 Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt??? in reply to Brad, 10-02-2003 17:37:32  
where could I get those bolts from? Would AGCO carry them? If so, what would they be listed as?

I'm thinking seriously of doing that.

thanks



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Brad

10-02-2003 18:09:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt??? in reply to Paul John, 10-02-2003 17:59:47  
Call Maibach Tractor at 1-800-808-9934 the part numbers are 20-7002212&20-7002213



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Paul John

10-02-2003 18:17:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt??? in reply to Brad, 10-02-2003 18:09:00  
Thanks is that in the States? If they could do mail order that would be great thanks again Paul John
By the way, at how many hrs does this normally happen? Is it just the wauseshka engines that have this problem or is it the olivers as well?



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Brad

10-02-2003 18:51:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt??? in reply to Paul John, 10-02-2003 18:17:42  
I'm not reall sure how many hours this happens, other than way too soon. It's pretty much all the waukesha's



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Ollie

10-03-2003 05:10:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 ckshtt? in reply to Brad, 10-02-2003 18:51:55  
Brad, give it a break. You work at Maibach and you are trying to sell parts to people using this site. That's in poor taste and doesn't help Maibach's reputation at all.

With the possible exception of the 310D, some of which did have problems, the rest of the Waukesha engines are as strong as an anvil. As long as they are not abused, are maintained by the book, and not modified/rebuilt by amateurs, they essentially last forever. My 1650G with a 265 Waukesha, for example, has 10,000+ hours on it and has never had a wrench on it. And there are many folks with much higher hour Waukesha engines still in perfect condition.

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Brad

10-03-2003 20:58:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 cks in reply to Ollie, 10-03-2003 05:10:33  
Ollie, I'm on the verge of telling you exactly what I think of you, but not only is that exactly what you want, but it is also very unproffesional. this is something that you are not ashamed of being guilty of. Yes, after rereading my post I realized that I did provide some false information. It was not all the waukesha's, it was primarily the 7 main engines. Something that you have proved to have very little experience with. your example of your 1650g is a poor example. Apparently, you are not aware of the drastic changes between the 1650 gas and diesel engines. the gas engine is a 4 main engine that is very trouble free. It is basically a updated 88 gas engine. the diesel is a completely different engine. with the exception of the oil filter base bolt pattern and the rear seal retainer, there is virtually no parts that would interchange. The block is a 7 main block, the crossfire engines used a straight cap connecting rod with a bolt and nut holding the cap on and since the bolt was a big problem with the direct injection engines this would explain why the crossfire engines were considerably more trouble free even though they had a fairly rare wristpin bushing problem. I explained why the rods were a problem on the direct injection engines and you're not worth my time repeating it. the 310 and 283 direct injection engines were of identical design other than the stroke and the compression height of the piston (do you know what the term "compression height" or "compression distance" means?) there was also some other changes such as the piston rings between the n/a and turbo engines, And the fact that all of the turbo needed a engine oil cooler while only th 1950T , 1955 and updated 1855 got one. and a few minor injector differences, all of which will interchange. this is why the 1650 DIR INJ and the 1655 DSL shared the same problems as the 310's.And did you not pay attention to the fact that he specifically asked where he could get the parts? what was I supposed to do, send him elsewhere? I suggest that you do some homework before you start lecturing me on a 7 main waukesha engine. I'm afraid you have just proved you know very little about them.

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bigwood

10-03-2003 19:07:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 cks in reply to Ollie, 10-03-2003 05:10:33  
Yea, right, I have a 1550d with 3988 act hrs. We are orig owners of tractor. Just got done with 3rd overhaul in july with all up grades. What a poor example of a motor. Good thing grandpa is dead. When pa kicks off Im going to sell the old money pit to some oliver lover. He can have the problem.



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Bob C

10-04-2003 15:39:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 in reply to bigwood, 10-03-2003 19:07:01  
I am 48 years old and have spent all my life around oliver tractors.In my opinion, the 770-1550-55 series oliver tractors were the best oliver ever made. They sold literally thousands and thousands of these models and very very few of them are even availble on the market to this day because people have had such good luck with them and keep them around for a light chore tractor. They were good power,very economical on fuel and ran like a car.I have always felt that about 60% of the problems with oliver engines was from poor maintaince practices and driver abuse and if its a 770-1550-55 that is being discussed that percentage goes up to about 90%. For every guy you run into who dislikes these models, i quarentee you there are 1000 out there who love em like family.

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Ollie

10-04-2003 04:35:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 in reply to bigwood, 10-03-2003 19:07:01  
There you go. You proved my point exactly!

If there was a problem with the original engine (possible, but not likely) then the first "overhaul" should have identified the problem and fixed it. In that case, whoever is doing your "overhauls" is obviously an amateur.

The more likely possibility is that you either don't do maintenance per the book, abuse it, or both.

While I'll allow that Oliver/Waukesha may have made a clunker once in a while (humans aren't perfect) the history on these engines is one of amazing durability.

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Brad

10-04-2003 09:41:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in in reply to Ollie, 10-04-2003 04:35:23  
Ollie, at first I assumed that the first line in your post was directed toward me, though I thought this was strange since you did not specifically mention me. I realized that it may have been referring to improper maintenence or repair work. If this is the case, disregard my post.(you will figure out which one I'm talking about.)



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Brad

10-03-2003 21:17:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in 1650 in reply to bigwood, 10-03-2003 19:07:01  
I would have to say that you got a lemon. the 1550d was a 4 main engine which proved to normally be very reliable. I would have to say that there was a factory screw up that has not been noticed.



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Brad

10-04-2003 09:05:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in in reply to Brad, 10-03-2003 21:17:28  
Do you have the slightest clue what the terms "4 main" and "7 main" are referring to? I'm pretty sure I made perfectly clear that while the 4 main engines were generally trouble free, the 7 main engines were the troublemakers. If you can't thoroughly read a post, don't bother responding.



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Oliver Puller

10-04-2003 16:07:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad engine in reply to Brad, 10-04-2003 09:05:15  
Brad, do you guys sell the rod bolts for the gas 4 main tractors? All of these motors have been overhauled numerous times and I dont like to reuse the bolts more than once, reguardless of know it all ollie!



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Brad

10-04-2003 16:16:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad en in reply to Oliver Puller, 10-04-2003 16:07:35  
Yes, but what is the casting no. on your rods, or what diameter is the rod journal on your engine, or exactly what engine do you have? there was different lenghts for the different rod journal diameters.



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oliver puller

10-04-2003 17:57:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ba in reply to Brad, 10-04-2003 16:16:12  
I have two engines currently I am building, one is a 195 waukesha and the other a 190. I have pressure lube rods in the 195, I think the same as 283's. I am also going to replace the 190 rod bolts, it is just a stock 88 block. How much do you get for these rod bolts?



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Brad

10-04-2003 18:14:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to oliver puller, 10-04-2003 17:57:26  
The 195 with the pressure lube rods used a different rod than the rest. it had a 2.625 rod journal and used a bigger 7/16 bolt. I'll check and get back on those bolts, I don't remember how much they are. As for the 190 I would assume it has the 2.25 rod jounal, but you should probably doubleckeck. I can't recall how much they are either.



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Brad

10-06-2003 14:50:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Brad, 10-04-2003 18:14:54  
Oliver puller, rod bolt prices are,

Complete set for the 190 assuming it has the 2.25 rod journal is $90.00 (Agco wants $276.00)

195 with offset rods $48.00 complete set.

If interested, call Maibach Tractor 1-800-808-9934 ask for parts.



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