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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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4-53 Detroit fuel problem

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MikeO

08-25-2003 20:22:26




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Our 1950 Oliver quit on us today while pumping water. My son said the main tank was dry while fuel was coming out of the saddle tanks. When I got to it, the tractor would not even start. Pulled it home and noticed the engine would fire only if I moved the fuel shut off in and out. I also had exhaust fumes coming out of the air breather. Another item was a trail of oily diesel fuel coming out of the drain tube on the right side of the engine. At first I thought one of the lines to an injector had come off or broken, but the lines all appear ok. Now my guess is the fuel pump is bad. I found that the drain tube in just in front of the oil return line from the pump. Am I on the right track and how hard is it to replace the pump. We are still looking for rain and I need to get this one up and running again. Thanks

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Oliver Fan

08-27-2003 03:12:46




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 Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to MikeO, 08-25-2003 20:22:26  
Sounds to me like you need to sell it! It just so happens that I've been looking for a Detroit powered 1950.



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MikeO

08-27-2003 07:56:27




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 Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to Oliver Fan, 08-27-2003 03:12:46  
Sorry, not for sale. It's been on the farm since new in 1966. Only work done was to rebuild engine twice and replace hydraulic pump once.



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JIM B

08-26-2003 10:19:56




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 Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to MikeO, 08-25-2003 20:22:26  
IF THE MOTOR TRYS TO START WHEN YOU FIRST TRY STARTER THEN WON'T AFTER,AND YOU HAVE SMOKE OUT OF BREATHER ,THEN YOU HAVE A STRIPPED BLOWER SHAFT AND COUPLING,NOT TO EXSPENSIVE AND FAIRLY EASY TO DO,AND VERY COMMON ON 4-53 DETROITS IN CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT



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MikeO

08-27-2003 04:29:58




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 Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to JIM B, 08-26-2003 10:19:56  
You are dead on. Blower is already off and at the shop. See my update post for more details. Thanks.



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ajax implement

08-26-2003 04:57:35




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 Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to MikeO, 08-25-2003 20:22:26  
Two thoughts, both will probably be wrong. Did you accidently trip the emergency shut-off? Check it, is has to be manually reset. On the fuel pump, put a gauge in the fuel manifold and see what kind of pressure you have. That little pump is a simple gear pump and does not go out too often. There are also right hand and left hand pumps in case that is your problem. To me if you are getting fuel out of the airbox drain there is a major internal engine problem like what happened to the compression since you are getting fuel, but I have seen the shut off on the blower cause that too as you shut the air off. I went on a service call once on one that would not run,That was he problem. but they smoke like crazy and you did not say anything about a lot of smoke. Oh well it was free

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MikeO

08-26-2003 08:00:11




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 Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to ajax implement, 08-26-2003 04:57:35  
Some further observations. As we pulled it home, I had to put the tractor in gear so I could turn the engine over and control the steering. It was during this time that I tried to start it and would get a brief firing by moving the fuel shutoff in and out. I did check the emergency shut off and it appears ok from the outside. When we pulled it and spun the engine, no exhaust came out until it tried to fire. That is the rain cap stay flat on the muffler, but unspent fuel came out of the air intake. It was also at this time that the drain tube on the right side of the engine poured out an oily fuel mixture. I thought is was coming from the injector rack, but after pulling off the valve cover, I found only good oil, no fuel on the top of the head. Do I possibly have a bad injector? I wasn't there when it quit. We did have the blower shaft go out once before and that did starve it for air. The problem that I cannot figure out is why the main tank would be pumped dry and fuel would be forced out of the saddle tanks which are higher. It almost seems like the fuel pump went beserk and started pumping excess fuel which could not be returned to the main tank and was forced to the saddle tanks. The fuel system worked fine all summer up until yesterday. This coupled with the oily fuel mixture coming from the drain tube still points to the pump. It was literally pouring out of the tube, making a solid line on the ground at 5 miles per hour. Any help would be appreciated.

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J. Schwiebert

08-26-2003 09:47:06




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 Re: Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to MikeO, 08-26-2003 08:00:11  
Post thison: Oliver-Har/Parr.org and see if you get some more replys. Like ajax said have you checked the fuel pump pressure? If you spray a lite amount of either through the air cleaners when it is cranking will it start? What I remember about them saddle tanks, you had to watch the caps vented & non vented and not mix them up otherwise they would not work. It is not good if they do run out of fuel,Don't forget the main thing the fuel pump does is circulate fuel through the injectors. There is a fair amount of fuel in the head casting at any given time.It has no affect on fuel leaking out of the air box unless you maybe broke a tip off an injector or cracked the head. Fuel helps cool and that is one reason they have a fuel cooler. We were told once never let the tank get lower than 1/4 full.Did the colant level go down? I take it you pump irrigation water with this. Do you have a set of Murphy's gauges on it ? Have you done the old trick of removing the exhaust manifold to see which cylinders spit smoke or raw fuel?

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MikeO

08-27-2003 08:02:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to J. Schwiebert, 08-26-2003 09:47:06  
Thanks for the info. I think I found my problem as to why it wouldn't start. See my posting under 4-53 update. I have always marveled at how this engine works and how it was designed. I didn't know about the how the fuel helped cool the tractor. This unit has been pumping water since 1966 and other than leaking oil, has always worked well. The Olivers of the 50 and 55 series had an engine speed pto which saves have to gear up a pump. I have 9 of these tractors and I can switch the units as needed, especially as one goes down as this one did.

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J.Schwiebert

08-27-2003 09:43:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 4-53 Detroit fuel problem in reply to MikeO, 08-27-2003 08:02:57  
Not a problem. I misunderstood you a little bit on the leaking tube. I need to think about the cooling the way you word it. I think it is more of a problem with fuel becomming too hot from the heat generated in the head. You know all four cylinders fire each revolution so there is a lot of heat build up in the head. I should have done a little more thinking on the fuel pump.
I was new when the 1800 & 1900 were introduced and I remember them promoting the engine speed PTO. We only had one person to use it and was to drive a large hydraulic pump. I went to the Panhandle of Texas once for another employer. All that irrigation stuff is kind of interesting to say the least. Around here too much rain this summer. Gladd it was not worse and you got it going.

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