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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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66 block getting water in oil

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jerry

08-19-2003 20:37:04




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bought a 66 oliver recently and wanted to possibly pull it but the block is getting water in the oil..it has a crack on the side of the block but has been welded..the guy i purchased fom said that he took the head off and it was cracked between the cylinders in the block..then put head back on without sealing..im just going to use the tractor for pulling so will this block seal with a new head gasket..have been told they will..other comments on places that they leak..i know the right thing to do is find a diff block but dont have much money so trying to get by with what i have..thanks for any suggestions

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jerry

08-22-2003 16:10:54




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 Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-19-2003 20:37:04  
thanks for all your concerns and wisdom on this matter..its nice to have some help from time to time..makes it cheaper and more efficient on those of us not in the loop..thanks again guys



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J. Schwiebert

08-20-2003 14:50:13




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 Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-19-2003 20:37:04  
Jerry: I have some dumb questions. The crack that was welded on the block is probably on the left side. All the oil galleries are on the other side. Did you check any of the soft plugs in the head under the valve cover if they leak. Have you remove the pan, filled the block full of water and taken a light to see where the leak is. How do you know you do not have a leaking O-ring on one of the sleeves/ How about a hole in the sleeve? Now we used to have a fair number of 77's that had cracks between the sleeves at the top. This is usually not a problem. The head gasket will seal them just as it does the sleeves which also fit loose in the top of the block. Cracks between the sleeves at the bottom are not easily repaired, cheaper to buy a block unless you have access to free machine shop work. Also punch the weld with a center punch to see if it can be drilled. I prefer a block that has ben repaired by pinning rather than welding. Most of the time if you weld one you have pin holes and some cast weld is not easily machined. Also pins can be ground down and you never know it was repaired. Other questions ask on the hartparr form. By the way is this a gas 66?

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Oliver Puller

08-20-2003 19:11:26




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 Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to J. Schwiebert, 08-20-2003 14:50:13  
I agree, take a look at the orings and see if they are leaking. The crack at the top is not all bad. This will usually seal up. Another block would be good, but if you dont have one laying around I would try to fix that one. Before Ollie tells you to "buy a manual" check the small things, for leaks with a pressure tester.



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jerry

08-20-2003 15:12:46




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 Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to J. Schwiebert, 08-20-2003 14:50:13  
it is a gas 66..crack is on carb side of block..havent taken apart to check freeze plugs..motor runs and pulls well but i purchased knowing that it got water in the oil so i did not put any water in it. just started..ran through the gears and loaded it..was hoping and looking for some suggestions on best places to look and possibly some remedies.. am planning on putting diff sleeves and pistons in so i figured if it was an o-ring that would take care of that..just wasnt sure about the cracks between the cylinders sealing with a new gasket thanks for your response and insight

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J. Schwiebert

08-20-2003 18:13:49




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 Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-20-2003 15:12:46  
Thanks for the reply. When you get it apart let me know. What kind of cubic inch displacement are you thinking? I forgot to ask you how much water does it leak?



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jerry

08-22-2003 16:09:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to J. Schwiebert, 08-20-2003 18:13:49  
havent had water in it..i purchased a set of 3 3/4 pistons and sleeves used from a gentleman named bernard in new haven..great fellow as well as machinist...dont know what the ci will be but have done some port work on head and removed about 100 thousandths i figure it will make a decent div 2 puller with a 3 1/2 mph speed limit in 3250 and 3500 lb classes



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J. Schwiebert

08-22-2003 19:37:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-22-2003 16:09:03  
That is what I figgured. You might want to consider a set of 550 valves in the head too. A junk Super crank and offset grind it to increase the stroke for more torque. What state New Haven?



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jerry

08-24-2003 08:25:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in in reply to J. Schwiebert, 08-22-2003 19:37:18  
new haven missouri...have done work on head and running chevy valves will get cam ground and wont go as far as stroking crank ..have been told they are weak item anyway..just want to pull div 2 with enough hp to be competitive..best way is to go with the cockshutt 30 as they have a pressurized crank and do not have the limitations of the oil spray for the rod bearings..lots more options for changing of parts..lol

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jocco

08-20-2003 14:41:17




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 Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-19-2003 20:37:04  
i agree with ollie get a new block



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Ollie

08-20-2003 04:11:21




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 Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to jerry, 08-19-2003 20:37:04  
Bad news. A crack between the cylinders can't be fixed and water in the crankcase will soon destroy the bearings.

If you look hard you might find a good engine in a tractor with a broken transmission or rear end to keep the replacement cost down. But this time you'll want to check the engine carefully before you buy it.



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Jerry

08-20-2003 04:29:54




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 Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Ollie, 08-20-2003 04:11:21  
I would try a good block sealer before I give it up. They work a lot of the time. Change the oil and watch it color after the sealing treatment. If the oil keeps its color and doesn't get cream color you may have sealed the leak. It sounds like the leak hasn't go into the combustion chamber and that is good. I hope that I have helped.



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Ollie

08-20-2003 06:18:12




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 Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Jerry, 08-20-2003 04:29:54  
My experience with block sealers is that they do a great job of sealing up the core tubes in the radiator. This can lead to overheating unless the core is dipped in acid or replaced. I agree it might be worth the risk in some cases as long as you keep an eye on the temperature gauge as well as the oil.



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Myron KY

08-20-2003 06:00:35




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 Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Jerry, 08-20-2003 04:29:54  
Jerry,

I've read about a sealer called Liquid Glass. I've never had to try it but it sounds like it may help your problem. Doesn't sound like you have anything to lose at this point, by trying. Here's a link to it in the Tractor Talk Archives. You can also find more info by doing a search for liquid + glass in the Tractor Talk and Restoration, Repair Tips archives.
HTH
Myron KY

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Todd NC

08-20-2003 07:31:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Myron KY, 08-20-2003 06:00:35  
Myron KY is right. I first heard of this product in the early '80s. My dad sealed a block in a WC Allis-Chalmers, worked like a charm. It's availible at the drug store ( no joke, drug store ). Also, my wifes uncle had the same problem on his tractor. The block was cracked between 2nd, 3rd cylinders. I MEAN CRACKED!!!! Didn't need magnaflux to see it. He put new head gasket, and poured Bars Leaks in the radiator. He used that tractor to bale straw with this year, and I seen it myself the oil had no water in it. I'd try it, what do you have to lose? Just use antifreeze if you drain the system, you drain the sealer. And you'll have to do it all over again.HTH my 2cents worth, Todd.

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Ollie

08-20-2003 06:45:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Myron KY, 08-20-2003 06:00:35  
Assuming he means "waterglass" (sodium silicate) it's avaialable at any drugstore. It does form a tough but thin skin as it dries. I've never heard of it being used for anything resembling block sealing. I'd have to see it work before I'd believe it. Silicates were used in old "green" coolants to coat the cooling system to prevent corrosion. They have been removed from the newer "orange" coolants as they damage water pump impellers.

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Myron KY

08-20-2003 07:58:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in oil in reply to Ollie, 08-20-2003 06:45:10  
Your right again Ollie, that's the stuff, sodium silicate. I've heard it called both ways, Water Glass and Liquid Glass. Some claim good success with it. It probably depends on the location and size of the crack. For Jerry's intended use, just for pulling, and not relied on as a daily worker it's worth a shot. I would rig up a sacrificial, junk yard, radiator and remove the thermostat. Flush all coolant out then treat with the Water Glass and water. Flush well after treatment. Change the oil and see how it did. If it worked, great. If not, I really needed a good block anyway.

My 2�.
Myron KY

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Jerry

08-20-2003 16:09:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 66 block getting water in in reply to Myron KY, 08-20-2003 07:58:50  
Don't use any sealers in auto's unless you bypass the heater. It will fill a heater core in a heart beat. In the case of this tractor to be safe it might be reasonable to bypass the radiator somehow. I use the Bars Leak aluim. with good luck.



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