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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum

77 R/C Diesel serial number question.

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Dan

07-22-2003 11:17:41

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I am a proud owner of a 77 row crop diesel (1952 I'm presuming)for approximately 9 yrs now. I have a question reguarding it's serial number. In researching serial numbers my tractor's serial number preceeds those listed or just plain doesn't match the number sequence at all. I have been in contact with it's original perchaser from the dealership and he advised me that it was a pre-production model (produced and distributed to dealerships for field test purposes, alledgedly supposed to be returned to the factory for dismantle.). Another odd thing I uncovered was the base coat of paint on my tractor, it looks like it is gold in color. Does anyone have any knowledge or information reguarding any pre-production 77 row crop diesels, if so please reply. (ser.#DSL 346970 C77C) Thank you.

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B A Star

07-22-2003 22:27:52

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Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to Dan, 07-22-2003 11:17:41

You are correct, the 1951 production Row Crop 77 was from serial number 337 243 to 347 903. Since your serial number is 346 970, your tractor is 33 from the last one built in 51, probably in December. I have a piece of literature, form A-924 dated August of 1950 announcing the 77 & 88 DIESEL tractors. I am sure they would not have produced the literature if the Diesel was not available on that date. In addition I have a copy of a Service Bulletin dated 10-30-1950 advising the dealers of changes being made to the 77 & 88 Diesel tractors that had been sold retail that involved an improvement to the throttle and stop linkage. This letter states that the last "Pilot Lot" Diesel Tractors ended at serial number 126 406, which is 1949 built tractors. All expemintal tractors had "EX" in the serial number and the casting parts would have EX preceeding the part number. The crankcase is the same for the gas and diesel, the cylinder head is different, thus if it is an expermintal, it should have the EX number. The crankcase and cylinder head will have a casting date in the casting as will the under side of the transmission. This will give you some idea of the production date. In view of the above, as your tractor was built in late 1951, I doubt that your tractor can be an expermintal.

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Dan

07-23-2003 09:51:22

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Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to B A Star, 07-22-2003 22:27:52

Thank you ever so much B A Star, you provided the insight I was looking for. I will check the casting numbers but I'm sure you hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

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J. Schwiebert

07-23-2003 04:08:08

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Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to B A Star, 07-22-2003 22:27:52

Thank you Mr. Starr If you read enough of this literature you can figgure a lot of this out. We both know the early 1950 models were a little different especially the 88 models. We took care of a rowcrop and even one standard 88 diesel from 1950. Both of those had electric hour meters. I often wondered if Charles City had them put on to keep better track of things. Of course they both had the Z model Bosch Pump. Neither one had the drip lines in the cap. I have only seen one tractor with those. I have some Bosch information that was sent to the dealers predecessor and they wrote on then when they received it. Then there used to be one of the service publications that took care of the service of the fuel system and it has a 1950 date .

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Dan

07-23-2003 10:15:53

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Re: Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to J. Schwiebert, 07-23-2003 04:08:08

Thank you again both Mr.Star & Mr. Schwiebert. I have checked the casting numbers and they do not have an "ex" in them. I'm not sure how to identify a "Z-model" Bosch injector pump, but my tractor is equipped with the "hour meter". Once again...thanks goes out to your knowledge and expertise.

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J. Schwiebert

07-23-2003 15:03:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number questi in reply to Dan, 07-23-2003 10:15:53

There should be a tag on the pump governor which will say PSB- 70 and then the letter x y or Z. they go in inverted order, Z being the oldest.
What size sockets takes the energy cell caps off? On an early 88 they are smaller than on a later 88, just curious on a 77.

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Dan

07-24-2003 08:13:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number qu in reply to J. Schwiebert, 07-23-2003 15:03:12

Per your curiosity I checked the energy cell size, they require a 1" socket for removal and/or installation. Also the "70" on the governor tag is followed by the letter "V". (PSB6A-70V S4550A1)

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J. Schwiebert

07-22-2003 14:55:23

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Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to Dan, 07-22-2003 11:17:41

The early ones had the DSL initials in front of the serial numbers. Also your serial number tag is also probably on the transmission and not on the dash. Some of the engine numbers also had D prefix. No doubt your 77 has the flat(not vertical) fuel lines and may have the fuel filter that has four little bolts to take off to change the element. 1950 is the first of them. I am not sure what you mean by preproduction. I have worked on some of the early 88 diesel like that. We only took care of one old 77 D.like that and just by luck I ran into the owners daughter and asked if her dad still had the tractor and she said not any more. He is probably close to 75 or better in age and does not farm anymore so no need to have it around.

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Dan

07-22-2003 17:57:04

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Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to J. Schwiebert, 07-22-2003 14:55:23

Thank you for your reply Mr.Schwiebert. Yes my 77 does have the "flat" fuel lines, my fuel filter is somewhat like a sediment bowl with one bolt bottom center. The serial number plate is located on the dash. I'll try to explain "pre-production"...The story I was told (and what I'm trying to verify) is that Oliver Tractor Corp. built "x" amount of the diesel models prior to iniciating full production, these "pre-production" (as they were referred to) were sent out to dealerships for farmers to field test and evaluate. I was also told that these test models were to be returned to the factory for dismantle and evaluation by Oliver Tractor Corp. Thus being why my serial number doesn't match production numbers. The original perchaser told me that mine was one of two not recovered by Oliver. I hope this explains what I meant by "pre-production", I am attempting to authenticate the alledged history of my 77 Diesel. Thanks again.

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J. Schwiebert

07-22-2003 18:21:02

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Re: Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number question. in reply to Dan, 07-22-2003 17:57:04

I do not get this out of sequence thing. I don't use a book 95% of the time. I go on memory I used to work for a dealer. The 77 models start with 320,000 if I remember correctly. That was basically in 1949 so three years later your serial number sounds O. K. to me.Maybe I should get my book out. I have it packed away due to winter carpenter work.

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Dan

07-22-2003 20:18:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 77 R/C Diesel serial number questi in reply to J. Schwiebert, 07-22-2003 18:21:02

Please excuse me...sorry the serial number list I was last referencing had a misprint omitting one number for the year 1951 and I was not bright enough to put two and two together. So sorry to get you lost in my confusion! You are absolutely correct, no need to dig out the books. My serial number falls into the 1951 model year for the 77 row crops, but what is the starting numbers for the diesels (if there is any difference)? The serial number references I have seen typically just list 77 row crops with no separation of gas versus diesel. Or am I just barking at the moon? Did they separate the two or just run the numbers in sequence as they came off the line? Heck I'm getting myself confused and irretated now! Thank you for your time and patience.:)

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