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1950 T nice hole

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gaetan

02-06-2003 03:33:09




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just replace the broken crank 50 hours ago
now a nice hole under the starter I had put the new rod bolt i will take her out this weekend maybe it was a weak rod from the
broken crank 50 hours ago crank was broke in the middle .was comming down the road at 2000 rpm when threw the rod




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gaetan

02-06-2003 18:03:35




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Took it apart today and it looks like the camshaft broke,cracked the block on both side on #6 connecting rod broke right over crankshaft.
broke (1) head bolt on the rod. #5 big hold on starter side, plus (4) lifters came out on 5&6 piston. lol there is no patch big enough to repair block. looking inside cracked on #5 piston and cracked on oil pump block casing. Plus only have (50) hours since rebuilt, and (2) Main bearings on 3&4 worn bad, but crank looks good.
Question, how much do you pay for good main bearing and rod bearings? Going to take another chance, I have a good block and camshaft all I need is gaskets and bearings.

p.s. I still have the strong feeling thats its the camshaft that broke, could of had a cracked camshaft from the prevous broken crankshaft.????

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BIG WOOD

02-06-2003 17:05:52




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Cut off top and plant flowers in it by the end of the driveway.



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WFE

02-06-2003 16:49:50




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Sorry to hear that. Where did the rod break? Also look at the rod bearings. Strange wear patterns would indicate that the broken rod could very likely have been slightly bent or twisted from the first failure, which would have caused it to endure undue stress which would account for this failure. If the crank is undamaged, you can still rebuild this 310 very economically. Block is easily patched as it is not structural. Have block line-bored. Acquire a rod from a good salvage yard and have all 6 inspected by a professional machinist to ensure trueness. Then have the rods, pistons, flywheel, dampner, and crankshaft dynamically balanced as an assembly, again by a professional auto machinist. Assemble with new bearings and rod bolts and make sure the one-piece wrist pin bushings are in the piston pin bore of rods. One can also have rod hardened. No reason the 310 shouldn't last then. Have 250 hours on last one I did in a 1950-T, running at 148 hp and up to 3000 rpm. Good luck!

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Shep :-)

02-06-2003 13:51:00




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Whats that??? I hear it, Its loud, its pulling, and it sounds good..... ..

Its the sound of a 5.9L Cummins / 1950T Oliver in your future.....



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alberta dave

02-09-2003 07:26:23




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 Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to Shep :-), 02-06-2003 13:51:00  
Hey Shep, I work around a lot of oilfield equipment and I have come accross a manufacturer here in Canada using new Perkins 5.9L stationary engines for running some nitrogen pumping equipment. The plate on top states that the engine is rated to 150 hp. The engine looks like it would be an easy swap to drop into my blowed up 1850 D. In your many forrays into repowers for Oliver/Cockshutt tractors did you evaluate the suitability of using an OEM engine?

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Shep

02-09-2003 16:55:40




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 Re: Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to alberta dave, 02-09-2003 07:26:23  
Yeah, I have looked into this before, puttting a later model 354 Perkins into an 1850. Biggest problem that I have seen so far is the 1850's had an origional 354 Perkins engine in them, or a "No Dot" engine. The later Whites and Massys started running "Dot 2, Dot 3, and so on, later model engines. And the thing is they changed a lot of things on these later engines that really mess up the ability to put them into an 1850 Oliver at all. The oil pans are made wider, the water pump is set higher, messing up your fan height, the engine mounts are different, normally both manifolds are different,etc, etc. It can be done, and I have seen some people put 354 Perkins combine engines into 1850's but they just dont fit well, and there are not enough conversion Perkins parts to make it fit and look good.

The beauty of using a Cummins engine is that they are put into soooo many different applications and Cummins makes parts for these engines that can put the fan at almost any height, the turbo can be put at several different locations, the engine mounts can bolt on at several places, so you can get the right parts for the Cummins re-power that you are doing and really make it all look like it was a factory engine.

It really makes me smile to see a farmer that may be somewhat knowledgable about Olivers to see and look at one of my re-powers and never notice the different engine until they hear it or see it do something that they know it it not supposed to be able to do. I really try to make my Cummins tractors look factory to the untrained eye.....

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alberta dave

02-09-2003 17:13:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to Shep, 02-09-2003 16:55:40  
I may have asked before but does the bell housing match or do you have to manufacture a spacer when you did the cummins thing?



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Shep

02-10-2003 05:10:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to alberta dave, 02-09-2003 17:13:37  
When you put a 5.9L Cummins into any Oliver tractor you need to use the Perkins 3 speed side bellhousing, the half with the throwout bearing in it and it will bolt perfect to the standard SAE Cummins half bellhousing, much like the 1850 Perkins engine bolts togeather. The Waukesha bellhousings are way too long because they have that flex plate that bolts to the back of the engine, a very poor design in my opinion.

So there is really no modification in hooking the Cummins engine to the 3-speed or the hydra power on a re-power other than you need the 1850 bell housing.

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alberta dave

02-10-2003 16:35:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to Shep, 02-10-2003 05:10:29  
You make it sound so easy. I am torn between buying a 354 out of a Massey 510 combine for $3250 Cdn or a rebuild for closer to $6000. Purely for cost considerations the Cummins is out for now but I am continuing to search for a super deal on a 5.9 cummins which would make it viable.
Do you know if there are other make engines that would have the same SAE bell housing?



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Shep

02-11-2003 08:48:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to alberta dave, 02-10-2003 16:35:39  
No Dave, I dont know of any other engines that run that pattern off the top of my head other than Perkins and Cummins engine models. There probably is some that will line up, but I dont know what they are, I have never tried anything else.

My last 5.9L Cummins I bought was $4,000 at 100HP and no turbo, and I normally get them from $4,000 to $5,000 either used or rebuilt engines with turbos. Figure another $2,000 in conversion parts and you have a Cummins conversion for $6,000 to $7,000 if you do the work yourself. I would put a re-power Cummins in long before I rebuilt the engine for nearly the same price if you are planning on using this tractor. Now if you get a combine engine for $3250 that is not a bad deal, and you can use your existing engine parts to convert the engine to tractor use, so it will not cost you much to convert, but you still have the same engine that you had and how long will it last???

Its up to you Dave, but I guess my whole thing has been if I am going to use my tractors on the farm, you either pay me now or pay me later. You can put the money in the Cummins engine up front with modern technology and get 10,000+ hrs on a good powerful engine, or rebuild, replace and fix the origional waukesha and perkins engines with 30 year old technology and spend more money on them over the long run, have more down time when you need to be in the field, and have a smaller HP tractor.

Now for a collector or show tractor or one that doesnt farm much, just works around the yard, that is a different story. But for a tractor you depend on to feed hay, grind feed and work dirt, day in and day out, there is no decision in my mind, given the price difference of a rebuild vs a re power.

Just my 2 cents.

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E J

02-06-2003 11:45:33




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Had the same problem .Check line bore,magnifux crank,ck.rod bushings&try to patch hole.



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Don-WI

02-06-2003 09:17:24




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 Re: 1950 T nice hole in reply to gaetan, 02-06-2003 03:33:09  
Sorry to hear! If your lucky though, you might still be able to put a patch over the hole and still run it. I've seen it done on many tractors. Hopefully nothing internally was busted up too badly and most parts are still salvageable for you. Best of luck.
Don from Wisconsin.



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