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Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!!

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gatractorman

01-05-2003 03:56:31




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I have rebuilt a Waukeshau diesel engine in a White backhoe that continues to run rough, I have a book on a Oliver 1550/1555 which is the same engine and have learned the energy cells help to atomize the fuel for combustion, I have the cells out and soaking in carb. cleaner had alot of carbon build-up but no pitting or burned sealing surfaces the book told to look for, all cylinders were firing but only 2 cylinders really made alot of difference in the engine, at first start-up it has low power and just the hydraulic load of lifting the bucket will stall the engine, it gets much better after it warms a while but still never smooths out and never quits smoking, white smoke, incomplete combustion, it starts easily enough especially with the cool weather weve been having, personally I dont think cleaning the cells is gonna fix it, I think the pump and injectors are gonna need some attention, what do yall think?

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Skinner

01-06-2003 17:48:01




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 Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to gatractorman, 01-05-2003 03:56:31  
Mine did it right after an overhaul. I decided to overhaul the pump later and a couple of weeks after I put the new engine in, it started smoking, no power, and sound bad. Opened the timing cover on the pump and notice coffee grinds coming out of it. The coupling had broke. Rebuilt the pump and all was fine.

Injector pump timing is important, the flywheel marks can be tough to read if there is not a tape. When setting the timing, always approach the timing mark in the correct direction (normal running direction). If you pass it up, back up way past the mark, then approach it from the proper direction. On a diesel, a couple of degrees is enough to cause problems. I assume it ran fine before you overhualed it? Another thing, make darn sure you have bleed and bleed the injector lines. Air in the lines will cause similar problems.

Let us know what you find.

Skinner

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Sam M

01-06-2003 06:43:52




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 Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to gatractorman, 01-05-2003 03:56:31  
I once had a problem with my Oliver 1555 running rough and lacking power that was fixed by clean and polishing the energy cells . However your problem sounds more like a stuck valve or an injector / pump problem . Do not forget when you reinstall the energy cells that there is a torque specification on the cap bolts or plugs that hold the energy cells in the block . I think the torque spec is around 90 to 100 . My manual is at the farm in the barn so it is not handy but maybe someone else on this cite has theirs handy .

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m kuhns

01-05-2003 16:31:19




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 Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to gatractorman, 01-05-2003 03:56:31  
If the injection timing is off it will smoke like the other guy said. If the the timing is retarded, diesels will generally start up easier when cold out because it is injecting fuel closer to TDC where there is more heat from compression. It will also make the engine run rough and smoke white. This could be your problem, but if all your cylinders are in good condition (valves - good adjusted properly too). About the only things left is the injection system. It sounds like you might have an injector stuck open. If one is, the rotary pump makes the situation worse. It will give more fuel to the nozzle that is stuck open and can't get enough of a charge of fuel back to fire the next cylinder in the firing order properly. I hope this makes sense!
We had one tractor that had two injectors stuck open and had a similiar experience. I just tore the injectors apart and cleaned out carbon that didn't let the needle seal and all was well.

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IanC

01-05-2003 16:27:35




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 Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to gatractorman, 01-05-2003 03:56:31  
If your injectors are not giving the correct pattern (basically a stream) into the energy cells it won't run right. But usually they won't start good either. Check your pump timing, they will start and run with it 180 out but won't make any power. The factory 1550 manual shows a propper pattern.



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fredo

01-05-2003 17:28:15




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 Re: Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to IanC, 01-05-2003 16:27:35  
what is an energy cell? what roll does it play in fule delivery? i dont ever rember that term, course could be old [almost forgot the word] age.
fredo



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Sam M

01-06-2003 10:11:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to fredo, 01-05-2003 17:28:15  
On Oliver indirect injection diesel engines (like diesel engine on Oliver 1550 and 1555) there is an energy cell for each cylinder located across the block from each diesel fuel injector . Looking at the right side of the block from the driver's seat on a 1555 , there are what appear to be six bolt heads directly across from the injectors . These bolt heads are really more like plugs and behind each is an energy cell which is a metal cuplike device with the open area of the " cup " facing each fuel injector .

As I understand it , during operation , fuel is shot out the injector , across the cylinder and into the fuel cell . The process of hitting the fuel cell and swirling around it , atomizes (I am assuming like vaporizing ) the fuel and then sends it back into the cylinder to be exploded by pressure from the piston going up . I have no idea what advantages there are from an indirect versus direct injection or why Oliver stuck with the indirect injection on the 1555 but used direct injection on the 1655 . Maybe Mr BA Star knows or could tell us the background on indirect vs direct injection .

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RAB

01-06-2003 11:48:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to Sam M, 01-06-2003 10:11:51  
Indirect - starting the combustion process in a small separate 'vessel' in the head gives rise to a much quieter engine, but the down side is the extra, metal surface area, surrounding the gases being compressed, lost a lot more heat so they were harder to start (as at cranking speed heat loss often exceeded compression heat and the engines would not start). These engines needed to operate with several points extra compression ratio and needed some sort of glow plug to get started cold. Needed the energy cells to improve the burn and Riccado was THE expert on these at the time.
Direct injection has generally superceded the indirect system as technology has advanced with better swirl design, leading tt overall better specific fuel consumption (less heat loss and not having to squeeeze the gases in and out of that chamber) and a better useful rpm range and much quieter than earlier examples, especially now with all the new computerised engine management and new injection systems. Cheaper to make as well.
The indirect engines also could become poor starters if any reduction in compression pressure occurred ie. as they aged and started to show wear.
Direct engines didn't have to stand quite as much stress - the higher the compression ratio, the more carefully they needed to be constructed - blown head gaskets etc. One of the early problems with direct injection was dissipating combustion heat from the pistons, I believe
Hope this helps, regards RAB

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Al m

01-05-2003 15:39:02




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 Re: Need help with energy cells!!!!!!!! in reply to gatractorman, 01-05-2003 03:56:31  
I really do not know,but is white smoke not a sign of pump(injection)timming being off.
(just a thought)
Al



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