Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum
:

Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Oliver Matt

11-03-2000 10:00:24




Report to Moderator

I just thought of something. White Motor Corp. sold industrial tractors, backhoes, forklifts, front-end loaders, power units, etc. using Oliver tractors as the base unit. This was during the 1960's and early 70's I think. I also think W.M. had their own industrial dealer network at that time. Quite possibly Oliver dealers could sell yellow industrial versions of ag tractors as Olivers and White industrial dealers sold them as Mighty Tows. Maybe they did this so industrial customers would think they were buying an industrial machine instead of a modified ag tractor. I don't know. I am a 31 year old Oliver nut. Most of this happened before my time or before I was old enough to know anything. If someone knows more about this I would like to know. I do know it was confusing to a young farm boy in mid 1970's with the Oliver-White thing that was going on then.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Roger

11-05-2000 05:22:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Oliver Matt, 11-03-2000 10:00:24  
Thanks for all the info.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dsl

11-03-2000 17:06:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Oliver Matt, 11-03-2000 10:00:24  
I don't know what exactly was going on, but each and every industrial version had a higher horsepower rating than it's ag tractor counterpart, for example, the 53 hp 1550 presented as the 63 hp 2-63, the 66 hp 1650 presented as the 2-78 and 4-78's, 1850's as 2-105 & 4-105's, etc... I don't believe for a second that the engines or injector pumps were any different for the industrial line. No way does my 1650 industrial have 78 horsepower. Here's a piece of sales literature for a 1600 industrial--it claims hp's of 74.5 for the gas version, and 71.5 for the Diesel one! Yeah, right.

third party image

I guess if there actually was a separate industrial dealership network, White was hoping there was enough of a culture gap between farming and industry for the inflated horsepower figures to remain a secret. Not something to be proud of, I must say.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chris Losey

11-03-2000 18:44:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Dsl, 11-03-2000 17:06:07  
Dsl, I believe that the horse power is flywheel hp on the industrial versions. The customer buying a industrial tractor didn't care about PTO horse power.

Also, from what I can figure from the serial number on this, it is really a 1950 industrial. This would explain the fender tanks.
The rest of the numbers fit the description.
295-92010 = 1950 with industrial FWA and a diesel engine.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dsl

11-04-2000 05:26:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Chris Losey, 11-03-2000 18:44:01  
Not to undermine your experience and opinion, but in the spirit of healthy debate, doesn't a drop from 74.5hp at the flywheel to 56.5hp at the PTO on the 1600 platform not seem like rather a lot? That exceeds the average farm tractor PTO-drawbar hp loss by almost double. My point being, I still believe the figures must have been inflated for the industrial sector.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chris Losey

11-04-2000 07:42:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Dsl, 11-04-2000 05:26:57  
After doing some math, that comes out to about a 24% power loss. That does seems a bit high for a non-powershift tractor. I have heard that upward of 20% is what it takes just to turn the tranny, hydraulic pump, alternator,and other accessories.
It looks as though you may be right about the figures being fudged somewhat.

Nothing better than a healthy debate!!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dsl

11-03-2000 17:17:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Dsl, 11-03-2000 17:06:07  
Further to the above, the ag tractor manufacturers had the Nebraska Tests to keep them honest, but I guess there was no independent testing laboratory for the industrial equipment manufacturers, allowing them, and FORCING the consumers they dealt with, to effectively remain in the 1920's when it came to accountability and performance claims of equipment.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DKaiser

11-03-2000 11:05:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Oliver Matt, 11-03-2000 10:00:24  
I kind of understand what you are saying. You problably know better than me. I'm 21 so the whole oliver things was way before me. I've been trying to figure out the model of our 1950 idustrial. I was wondering if it was a 2-115 if I ever decide to paint it. I'm pretty sure that White was still making industrial equipment until 78 or 79. We have a white 2-63 backhoe that is basically a 1550 industrial. That 1950 that we bought they claimed to be around the same age. I don't know though, I haven't checked it's serial number.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Oliver Matt

11-03-2000 11:44:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to DKaiser, 11-03-2000 11:05:14  
Roger Brock e-mailed me a picture of his. His is a 1966 1950 version. Look at the side panel. The Oliver version should have the long tapered nameplate that said "OLIVER 1950" or at least holes if it is missing. A 4-115 version had completely different markings, decals, emblems, whatever on side panel. It can be hard to tell by paint colors but here is something else. I am pretty sure the sheet metal on an Oliver version was all yellow. I think the side panel where the nameplate was on a White version was painted white and the rest of the tractor was yellow. But it could have been painted once or twice since then. I remember seeing a picture of one restored and the black and white photos in my book show that panel painted white. Is the emblem still on the grille? The Oliver version had the Oliver keystone emblem on grille. The White version had a different emblem. Can't tell you what it said but can see in picture it is different. Do you know the whole Oliver-Cockshutt-Moline-White-Agco story. If not e-mail me and I will do my best to explain it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DKaiser

11-03-2000 19:33:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Hey Roger Brock and DKaiser 1900 4WD in reply to Oliver Matt, 11-03-2000 11:44:33  
I understand the story, my dad worked at the tractor plant for a few years and my grandpa was a dealer from the middle 50's until he died in 69. I just didn't get the whole mighty tow thing. I just assumed since they where using white-oliver emblems they were built later. I know they put white stickers on the 55 series. What had me puzzled about our tractor was it's lack of markings. It does have the holes in the side panels for the tapered nameplate. The emblem off of the grille is also missing. This tractor was sold to the seamans corporation where they added their rotovator unit and put there stickers on it and sold it as their product. I'm home at the moment so i'll have to take a look at the serial number tomorrow and see exactly what year it is.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy