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Help with Super 55 knocking...

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Ollie Suppa 55

05-21-2008 14:59:16




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Well, I've done it now.
Background: Was running tractor off and on throughout the day and it began smoking a little bit out the breather and then started this awful knocking minutes later. Oil level was quite low and added a quart and a half - same thing. Knocking. Slow and faster knocking matching the rpm's. Sounded like from on-top of the engine closest to me.

Then - battery dies.... Now the starter doesn't want to turn unless tapped lightly. (first time this has happened also) On start-up from charging a grinding sound (metal/metal) occurs and starts right up with same knocking sound. Braught it home 1/4 a mile and temp shot up to 180 degrees.

Pulled the oil pan, and nothing from my UN-trained eye looks broken. Pulled the head off and same - nothing broken. Heads look dirty but not at all like a piston was bouncing off it. All rods are intact, oil pump is working, radiator fluid is neon green. Starter spring could be replaced as well as cleaned - the sprocket is very sticky on return.
Now, I'm not a mechanic, and never plan on splitting the tractor myself. Funds are low right now, and hoping this is something I can do. Any help would be great - possibly how to rule out the easy stuff. It would just be nice to justify getting it fixed asap if it were cheap/easy.
Any ideas??

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El Toro

05-23-2008 16:43:00




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  
That engine needs a complete rebuild. Those metal particles are pumped throughout the engine and engine needs to be cleaned thoroughly. The crankshaft needs to be pulled and have your local auto machine shop to measure it for wear and determine how much it it needs to be ground undersize. Just sticking bearings in it is just putting a bandaid on the problem. Hal



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MikeS55d

05-23-2008 13:47:40




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  
I would agree that measuring the crank is necessary, but, by your description, it sounds like it needs to go to the machine shop. STD means that the bearing is sized for a standard dimension journal. .010, .020 etc. would be for journals that have been turned down to under size diameters in order to repair a damaged surface. A BIG RED FLAG goes up any time that you find different bearings on different rods. It means that someone has done a repair (or cover up) on the cheap. Also check if the oil holes in the bearing shells line up with the holes in the rod and that they are not clogged with junk. Sometimes the bearing shells are not installed correctly and no oil can get through.

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Ollie Suppa 55

05-23-2008 04:50:33




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  

c35 said: Doing the whole job once right is a while lot cheaper then doing it twice


Agreed. I won't have the funds for quite some time for an entire overhaul kit. I'll have to replace rod bearings, head gasket, and oil gasket first and if the problem persists she'll have to sit awhile.
I'm not sure which rod bearings to get, the two sets I took off that do not have much wear are stamped 190110. The ones that have lots of wear are stamped CLEVITE 77 B-1 and on opposite end 2/98 STD. CB-451P.

The folks here are selling them as a set are std, .010, and .020. Which ones are needed??
Also- the head valves are gunked up some, is it alright to take a wire brush to clean these and get everything with compressed air at the end?
Thanks for all the help, as you can see I am not a mechanic.

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c35

05-23-2008 12:24:06




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-23-2008 04:50:33  
you will have to mic the journals on the crankshft to know which bearing set you need. As you have two diffrent bearing types I suspect work has been done here before so you need to check all of them as one or two could have been turned down already from original specs. Dont assume anything measure. .010 is for a crank journal that has been turned down .010 to clean it up so the bearing shell is actually narrower in rdius then standard. .020 is for .020 thou under bearing journal. You will need you manual to determine what factory is and then compare the measurements you take.

If you havent done this before try to get someone who has to walk you through it. You have to measure carefully.

Good Luck

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Ollie Suppa 55

05-22-2008 15:16:39




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  

Ollie Suppa 55 said: Spots of copper missing and rounded corners on #3 with a very dark black color to them both. Numbers 2 and 4 seem to be un-affected and are much thicker and of an aluminum color.


Sorry - these are descriptions of the rod bearings/sleeves.



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Ollie Suppa 55

05-22-2008 15:14:44




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  

MikeS55d said: At a minimum I would pull all the rod caps off and check the bearings. Also make sure that the oil squirters are flowing normally.


OK - I just did that. Sitting in the seat closest to me #1, #2, and #3 are loose to the touch; maybe a 32nd or 16th or so. #4 was tight. After taking the rod caps off numbers 1 and 3 are in pretty rough shape. Spots of copper missing and rounded corners on #3 with a very dark black color to them both. Numbers 2 and 4 seem to be un-affected and are much thicker and of an aluminum color.
Is this just the start of things, or could this be the culpret??

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c35

05-23-2008 03:30:28




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-22-2008 15:14:44  
Thats not copper but actually babbit a bearing material made of a bismuth alloy if memory serves me right. Sounds like #3 has bought the farm in the machinist sense. Start sourcing an overhaul kit. Crank should get checked at machine shop and Id check the wrist pins and rings too on each piston while you have it apart. Doing the whole job once right is a while lot cheaper then doing it twice



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J.Schwiebert

05-22-2008 16:32:23




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-22-2008 15:14:44  
Cylinders are numbered front to back. stop at a parts store and get some plastigauge. do you have a torque wrench?



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J. Schwiebert

05-21-2008 15:08:43




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 14:59:16  
Well I would have shorted out each cylinder 1 at a time and see if I could make the noise go away. Timing gears will make a knocking noise, Did you pull the bearing caps and check for damage. No carburetor screws stuck in a piston?



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Ollie Suppa 55

05-21-2008 15:14:38




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to J. Schwiebert, 05-21-2008 15:08:43  
The shorting out each cylinder is a great idea. Should have done that/can still if need be and start over.
Bearing covers - these are on the outside of the motor I assume. I have the IandT manual and will have to do that.
There is nothing obvious stuck/broken from underneath.



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c35

05-22-2008 06:42:40




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Ollie Suppa 55, 05-21-2008 15:14:38  
Sounds like a connecting rod bearing on crankshaft may have spun due to the low oil condition.

Sounds like an overhaul is due



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Matt Kane

05-22-2008 13:18:02




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to c35, 05-22-2008 06:42:40  
My diesel did just the same thing, and I ended up spinning a rod bearing and busting one of the mains from the engine. I had to replace the engine because of the damage. I wouldn't run it until you have pin pointed the problem.



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MikeS55d

05-22-2008 13:45:40




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 Re: Help with Super 55 knocking... in reply to Matt Kane, 05-22-2008 13:18:02  

Matt Kane said: (quoted from post at 13:18:02 05/22/08) My diesel did just the same thing, and I ended up spinning a rod bearing and busting one of the mains from the engine. I had to replace the engine because of the damage. I wouldn't run it until you have pin pointed the problem.


I wouldn't start it either.

My S55 diesel did the same thing, smoke out of the breather but it had normal oil pressure. I parked it when it started to knock. When I pulled the engine apart I found a rod bearing totally smashed to a foil-like thinkness and the crank journal burned to a nice blue hue. These engines only have pressure lube to the mains. The rods are splash lubed and if the oil squirters or the cups in the rods are clogged the rod bearings are not being lubed. The oil pressure gauge would still read "normal".

Smoke out of the breather means either blowby from bad rings (or cracked piston) or the oil is getting very hot. In my case I found that the pre-combustion chamber had clogged which dumped the fuel down onto the piston creating huge pressures on the rod bearing which in turn burned up the bearing and journal.
Lack of oil to the rod bearing would produce the same result. At a minimum I would pull all the rod caps off and check the bearings. Also make sure that the oil squirters are flowing normally.

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