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'52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history?

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Bill Page

02-18-2000 15:36:51




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My '52 8N has been showing more and more oil sludge type stuff in the radiator and heating up a bit too much. Needed to do a major engine overhaul anyway so last Sunday Nick and I stripped it down and I took the block, pistons, head, crankshaft, etc. in to our local machine shop. They told me there's not enough pressure in the oil to allow a leak at the level of the head gasket. I worried a little about that. We thought it looked pretty good coming apart except this brown applesauce like stuff in the water ports.
Today I talked to the guys at the shop. Somehow, the oil line (s?) in the block don't hold pressure and when they put water in the water jacket, they could hear the air pressure from the oil line bubbling out. Bad news, huh? Fatal? :-(
How's the best way to get a new block? Do they exist? If not, how do you get a GOOD used one? Any ideas? Thanks!!!

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Nolan

02-21-2000 06:36:16




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
Always fun to listen to a shop that doesn't know what they're doing sling a line at a customer in hopes that they'll believe it. :-(

That's a shop that wouldn't be getting any more of my business. Does he want to tighten up your muffler bearings too?



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ZANE

02-19-2000 07:05:38




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
I believe the machine shop is taking you for a stroll down the well traveled primrose path! There ain't no way you got air coming from the oil gallery on an N engine!
What you had was leaking head gasket and probably all that was needed to stop the oil residue from accumulating in the radiator was a new head gasket and a little work on the head bolts or studs so you get a good torque on reinstallation of the head.

The local machine shop here in Talladega where I have a friend working had an 8N block in this week that has had the wrong sleeves installed but the bore was still right with the step on top and the head machinest was trying to tell me he would have to bore out the old sleeves and rebore to install aftermarket sleeves in order to fix. I told him he was full of it but never did convince him otherwise. Glad it isn't my block!

I would look around for somebody who knows the N engine to have a look at your block. I would definately not believe that crock they are handing you!

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Jim(Ky)

02-19-2000 08:09:46




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 Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to ZANE, 02-19-2000 07:05:38  
I agree with Zane. This block would have to be deep frozen or overheated severely to cause a crack betwwen the oil gallery and the water jacket. My N had a manifold twisted and broken from overheating. I rebuilt the engine and the block is perfect. I would try a straight edge and feeler gauges on the head to see if it is straight first. It may have been already shaved and you could have a piston hit the head if you shave to much. Use a good sealer and grade five headbolts when replacing head. THROW THE OLD HEAD BOLTS AWAY. Good luck.

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Jim(Ky)

02-19-2000 08:13:20




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 Re: Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Jim(Ky), 02-19-2000 08:09:46  
P.S. I used to light cigars off the exhaust manifold when I plowed. That tells you that these engines are hard to crack.



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Bruce in 100 Mile house

02-18-2000 20:05:30




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
I just did some work on my 49 8n 212854 and had a sleeve that was bad. There was some oil coming from the front clyinder through the leaking sleeve. It made things look pretty bad.With some advice from ZANE and a few others,i bought a new piston rings and a sleeve.Put them in and it worked just great.Maybe you have a similar problem and its a quick and faily cheap fix.Good luck from the Cariboo Country.

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Dave Todd

02-18-2000 17:54:23




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
Something just doesn't sound right here. I suppose it is possable the block could be cracked, but how did the shop presure up the oil gallary?? They would have to plug off all the oil holes for the crank shaft and the cam plus all other ports where the oil would go. I would want a second opinion if it were me. Hopefully, someone will respond that knows these blocks inside out, and can give a better opinion. As for the sludge, I think that is just oil in the water jacket from hopefully a leaking head gasket. Just my opinion. There are some real knowlegable people on this board that will set me straight on this. I'm wanting to learn more myself.
dave

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tOTG

02-18-2000 19:02:58




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 Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Dave Todd, 02-18-2000 17:54:23  
I agree with Dave; 2 + 2 isn't adding up. The applesauce in the ports is normal sludge. The "oil" in the radiator is not really oil, but combustion byproducts (that get past the head gasket) which look like oily slime. Your engine shop should know full well that this is the case. Why didn't they explain it to you?

These blocks typically crack in usual locations. I'm not familiar with cracking in oil galleys. And pressurizing the oil system with air?...air would be coming out a dozen places, how could they determine it was from the water jacket?

Slime in the radiator and overheating is head gasket. I'd be looking for another opinion.

John.CO

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llamas

02-19-2000 09:09:51




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 Re: Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to tOTG, 02-18-2000 19:02:58  
I agree with tOTG and Dave, something smells here. In addition to all the points they made, what's all this "not enough oil pressure at the head gasket" nonsense? Since there are no oil passages in the head gasket, what does that have to do with anything?

I think they are pulling your chain. If you didn't see distinct globules of black, liquid oil in the radiator, you don't have a cracked block. Go rescue your block and head (maybe - maybe - have them, or someone else measure for rings and pistons and things, while you have it all apart, so you know where you are) and put it back together with a new head gasket.

Sure wish you'd asked before you tore it all apart - you might have fixed it for $15 and an hour's work.

llater,

llamas

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Jim(Ky)

02-19-2000 10:09:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to llamas, 02-19-2000 09:09:51  
You have to watch some of these machine shops and auto repair places. I have had the drive shaft fall out of my truck after a tranny repair. I had one idiot put eight quarts of fluid in my trans after a filter change. Should have been eight pints. Burned it up. They hire people who don't care or who have no ability mechanic wise. They are there to finish up after the mechanics. I would rather mess it up myself. I get tired of dealing with them. I don't have the temper for it anymore. Don't you like it when you go to a store and they call you Bud or Buddy, or pick up the phone when you are standing there with money in your hand? Now I feel better!!

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Jim(Ky)

02-18-2000 17:42:21




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
Look in the Yellow Pages under automotive and find a shop that specializes in head and block repair. I have had heads welded with good results. You might find a block cheaper but you could also get a bad one out of the classifieds. Make sure your radiator is clean and flow tested and the thermostat is good. Some blocks are freeze damaged and some are overheated and broken. Good luck!



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Glen

02-18-2000 17:21:38




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 Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Bill Page, 02-18-2000 15:36:51  
Bill Put a add in the classiffids and you will find a few. Or call around they are out there. N-COMPLET HAS ONE FOR 750.

Good Luck



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sparky

07-11-2000 13:28:35




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 Re: Re: '52 8N Oil in the Water: Block is history? in reply to Glen, 02-18-2000 17:21:38  
I had the same problem with my 52 8n. It definitely is oil in the coolant.

I took the head off and found antifreeze in the number 2 cylinder to boot. Cleaned everything up no cracks. The new head gasket did the trick. The only problem was that this had been going on for a while and it pitted up the #2 Cylinder bore. It still has 78# of compression so I will hold off on a rebuild for a little while.

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