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2N charging priblem?

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Greg in MI

02-08-2000 09:46:32




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I know that with a 12 volt car system, it is possible to disconnect the battery after the engine is started and it will stay running. Is the same thing true with the 6 volt system in my 2N? Or is normal for it to stall when I remove the battery cable? also, mounted to the side of my generator is something that looks like contact points. I havent seen this on other 6V systems. What is it? Thanks, Greg

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John Regan

02-09-2000 23:16:08




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 Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Greg in MI, 02-08-2000 09:46:32  
I agree with Elvy - NEVER RUN A 3 BRUSH GENERATOR WITHOUT A BATTERY CONNECTED - you will damage the field winding in the generator and burn out most any lights that are connected too. I suspect that someone has added a cutout at the generator perhaps because the other one was defective. It is also possible that a 2 brush generator is now installed with a voltage regulator on it.

If the device mounted on the generator has only 1 set of points then I suspect it is a cutout. If it has more than 1 set then it probably is a voltage reg. Model T, A, and V8 Fords have the cutout mounted on the generator so it is not so uncommon. Does the generator have the slotted generator output adjustment control on the back plate?

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Elvy

02-09-2000 23:04:15




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 Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Greg in MI, 02-08-2000 09:46:32  
FYI

If you have a three brush generator with a two terminal, cutout in a round can, DO NOT DISCONNECT THE BATTERY WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING. This forces the entire output of the generator through the field windings and will BURN IT UP in a very short time.

It is NOT GOOD PRACTICE to disconnect a battery with any generator/alternator charging. The voltage reference for the regulator goes away which leads to generator runaway with the same positive smoke test as above.

Elvy

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ZANE

02-09-2000 05:31:47




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 Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Greg in MI, 02-08-2000 09:46:32  
If the generator on the tractor is the original it is not regulated by the battery voltage at all. It has permanent magnets in the field shoes and is excited internally after the generator begins to rotate. The cut out is not a voltage regulator. It simply closed a set of points when the voltage coming out of the generator becomes suffecient to close the points in the cutout by means of an electromagnetic solenoid. Taking the cable off the battery will in no way affect the voltage coming from the generator in this type generator. The only thing that affects the voltage in the 3 brush generator is the speed of the generator and the setting of the movable brush which mearly increases or decreases the effective distance between the brushes running ont the commutator. If the cut out is working and the generator is charging and the wire from the cutout to the battery has continutity it will run with the battey cable off the battery.

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Jim WI

02-09-2000 10:23:39




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 Re: Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to ZANE, 02-09-2000 05:31:47  
The battery is part of the load that prevents the voltage from rising. If the generator is adjusted to a high enough charge rate, the voltage will increase when the battery is removed.

See Joe Ferguson's post about what can happen.

Most N's will be somewhat immune to this kind of damage because they don't have lights. Still, it's something to keep in mind.



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LEVI

02-08-2000 10:14:03




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 Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Greg in MI, 02-08-2000 09:46:32  
A generator will not charge with out a battery in the system.It depends on the batttery to activate the windings.



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tOTG

02-08-2000 16:42:39




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 Re: Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to LEVI, 02-08-2000 10:14:03  
No, Levi, you are confusing an alternator with a generator. Alternator needs exciter charge, generator doesn't.

Greg, if your charging system was working the tractor would continue to run with the battery disconnected.

John.CO



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Jim WI

02-08-2000 09:57:46




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 Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Greg in MI, 02-08-2000 09:46:32  
It sounds like your 2N doesn't have an OEM charging system. The generator should only have one wire running back to a cutout relay (mounted under the battery). The generator should have a screw on the back labeled '+' and '-'. This screw is used to adjust the charging current.

If the tractor stalls when removing the battery cable, I suspect you have problems with wiring, generator or cutout (or all three). I don't recommend removing the cable with the tractor running because sparks are BAD around batteries. Exploding batteries are spectacular.

Since you don't seem to have an OEM system, it's hard to tell what you do have. Maybe someone replaced the original system with a generator with a voltage regulator?

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JOE FERGUSON

02-08-2000 16:02:59




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 Re: Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to Jim WI, 02-08-2000 09:57:46  
Hi Greg

I agree with previous post concerning battery
disconnect when engine running. Sparks over
the battery may cause explosion hydrogen vapors
are present over the battery caps vent.

And...Disconnecting battery when engine running cause generator charging with no load. voltage may be over 10 volts on a 6 volt system then all electricals are exposed to over voltage points volt/reg and generator may be damaged.

I remember my uncle Joe he disconnected the battery of his 1951 Studabaker with engine running
to use the battery on another car. The lights were
on and after he disconnect the bettery the engine still running the lights became white and burns one after the other including dash lights. After burn of each lamp the voltage goes up and up busted the radio. My suggestion is...never disconnect the battery when engine is running.

If you want to know if gen charging buy a little multimeter at hardware store yo can have one for
$ 10.00 to $ 20.00. Measure voltage when engine
stopped and engine running if voltage is higher when engine running it charges. This lil meter will serve you to check fuses.. wires and many uses.

Hope this will help


Joe Ferguson

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Jim WI

02-09-2000 10:19:09




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 Re: Re: Re: 2N charging priblem? in reply to JOE FERGUSON, 02-08-2000 16:02:59  
Thanks Joe. I've mentioned before the voltage runup problem but neglected to do so this time.

I've never seen this happen, just know about it from theory. Your experience sure carries more weight than my theoretical comments would have!



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