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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Lead Substitute

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Marty 2N IL

08-15-2006 10:16:12




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My brother and I are arguing over using Lead Substitute. I have read here in the past not to waste the money for the Fords because of the hardened valves, but what about the other color tractors. We have a couple of old john deeres a old oliver and a farmall f-20. From the information I can find the lead was used for octane and not valve lube any way. What do you guys think?
Thanks Marty




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Westwind

08-16-2006 04:26:12




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
OK, Just my $.02 worth. My grandfather drove a Model T and a Ford 8N. When these engines were designed and built, the gasoline then was called white gas. It didn't have any lead added to it and he said it was only around 82 octane. The engines seemed to run pretty well with it then and the unleaded gas at the corner pump today is 87 octane minimum. (For yer ol' belchfire V8) I wouldn't put any lead additives in my 8N, but that's just because I still believe what Gramps told me when I was a kid. Yer tractor, yer call, but as for me, I'll run the ol' 87 octane unleaded in mine. By the way, runs like a champ at about a gallon per hour at 3/4 throttle. Doesn't matter what I'm doin'.

Wes

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gahorN

08-15-2006 20:19:39




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
I challenge anybody anywhere to show me how historically lead was added to gasoline to prevent valve-wear. It never happened. Tetraethyl lead was discovered in the early 1920's by Charles Kettering, and it was done purely in search of an ANTI-KNOCK additive...and that's all. In fact, lead is harmful to engines. It fouls spark plugs. It leaves abrasive deposits in your engine. (Or don't you recall how we used to consider engines worn out at 75K miles? More than any other thing, it is unleaded gasoline that gives us 200K, 300K mile longevity to our vehicles.) It forms a grey sludge in the oil (and if your oil doensn't contain scavenging agents FOR LEAD (which modern automotive oils don't since unleaded fuels became mandated), then you stand a very good chance of injuring your engine with lead deposits. (Mobil 1 Synthetic Aviation oil was removed from the marketplace exactly for this reason...it had no lead scavenge ability. But they got if off the market too late to avoid the lawsuits of failed aircraft engines.)
Do NOT use lead substitutes (which are usually just corrosive alcohol anyway.)
Read about the discovery and early history of leaded gasolines at:
Link

Still want to see REAL tetraethyl lead in your fuel? Go to the local airport with a 5 gal. can and fill it up with 100 octane aviation gasoline. It contains up to 4 gms of lead in every gallon....FAR MORE than your tractor ever saw in the hey-day of leaded automotive gasolines, so dilute it by pouring only about a pint of aviation gasoline into your tractor's ten-gallon tank of regular unleaded.
Don't do this to your street vehicle if it has a catalytic converter or you'll be destroying and expensive device as well as subject yourself to expensive Federal and State fines. And consider using a quart or so of aviation ashless dispersant type oil in your sump to help scavenge the lead. (But my 9N only gets regular, unleaded, non-ethanol gasoline.)

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Dennis(VA)

08-15-2006 17:26:10




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
There was a big controvery in the British car mags a number of years ago when 4 Star gas (leaded) was banned. The magazines ran tests and conclude that if the engine ,didn't turn over very fast (RPM) which tractors don't, no problem without the lead. Lead came in use in the late twenty's, early thirty's



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Peter, Covington, LA

08-15-2006 15:20:00




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
Once again I will report on a thread that has appeared many times on the Model T Ford forum:

When Model T's were built, no lead was added to the gasoline. That came later. Theerefore, using modern lead-free gas should be no problem.

I have no idea when lead was added to gasoline, but I would bet it was in the late '40's or early '50's. So, if your tractor is older than that, the same would be true.

On the other hand, today's gas burns infinitely better than gas from "the day." It undoubtedly burns much hotter. And it is much farther from oily kerosene than gas in "the day."

For that reason, most Model T drivers report on that other Forum that they do one of two things. One, they use today's gas without a second thought. Two, they use today's gas with the addition of Marvel Mystery Oil.

We've even come up with a highly scientific measurement of how much MMO to use. It's called a "glug." Most agree that two glugs in a 10 gallon tank is the right amount. Of course, this measurement was devised when MMO came in a metal can, so we haven't finished the highly technical tests required to determine the equivalent in the more recent plastic jugs. In case you think I'm kidding, there are several of us who pour new MMO into old metal cans, just so they get consistency.

See, we Model T drivers are as nutty as drivers of old Ford tractors. And we have just about as much fun. Me, I have both - and I'm retired - so I smile most of the time!

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Stumpalump

08-15-2006 12:55:40




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
Real lead substitute can only be sold with so manny parts lead per million. If you buy leaded racing gas you get the same parts per million lead at a cheaper price plus the great gas. A little dab will do you. I understand that a lot of old engines all ready have hardened valves but some do not and will burn the valves after a while. The lead protects the valves and controlls octane the best. You would not belive how smooth 5-15% racing gas will make an engine run. Its really cool in a Briggs and straton gas mower or chain saw. Lead dissolved in fuel soaks right into your blood stream. I like my engines to run at top performance but the real lead is to dangerous so I don't play with it often. To sumerize, if you feel you need the protection of lead look into the amount of lead in racing gas and you will see you get a better bang for the buck over the gas additives. Be Carefull!

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CWG

08-15-2006 17:00:26




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Stumpalump, 08-15-2006 12:55:40  
At 7.00 a gallon for navgas, my briggs and stratton is lucky it gets lighter fluid! LOL



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old

08-15-2006 12:08:18




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
The lead stuff doesn't do any thing but waste money. I use the cheapest gas I can get in all my tractors and I do have a lot of tractors and never had any problems with any of them. Once in a while I might put some tranny fluid or old oil in the gas but other then that I just pour it in and good.

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souNdguy

08-15-2006 11:29:02




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
I'd have to agree with the others. And if you wanted some extra upper lube.. add a couple oz of MMO to each gas tank. Way cheaper and it IS a lube... and cleaner..

Soundguy



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dan hill

08-20-2006 02:38:02




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to souNdguy, 08-15-2006 11:29:02  
MMO will cause the shutoff valve to bind up on the 600 series tractors.Some O rings cant take the MMO.A lot of lead subs were just diesel fuel.The gas valve for the 600 cost 50-60 bucks so keep the MMO out your gas tank.



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souNdguy

08-20-2006 15:06:01




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to dan hill, 08-20-2006 02:38:02  
I'm much more fond of the N/NAA style shutoff valve with sed bowl vs the plain valve ont he hundred series. For those with replacement gas tanks.. AFAIK.. you can use either.

As for the oring.. why not replace with a nitril/urethane/viton ring. Universal oring kits are pretty cheap.

Soundguy



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tveenker

08-15-2006 11:00:59




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
TOH: --- I think what he wanted you to say is "You're smarter than your brother" LOL :)



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Dan 2N

08-15-2006 10:54:06




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
I think lead was added added for octane after most of our tractors were built, so the same would be true for the others.
Dan 2N



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TheOldHokie

08-15-2006 10:42:04




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 Re: Lead Substitute in reply to Marty 2N IL, 08-15-2006 10:16:12  
I think you are better informed than your brother.

TOH



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