:-(

I just got back from taking my first load of things to the machinist -- block, head, crankshaft, and oil pan. I really like this machinist, and I learned a LOT today. But some of the things I learned are sad.

Arthur's crankshaft is in much worse shape than I had hoped. And his oil pan has a huge crack in it!!! So far a visual inspection did not reveal anything like that on the block or head, although he thinks the head may have to be planed. (I forget the term for making it re-flattened again at the moment, sorry.) I had been hoping for much better news. Here are a few pictures and the whole sad story.

This is the crankshaft. It's real hard to see, but he showed me things I saw clearly once they were pointed out. The middle journal is the one with the white arrow drawn. It has been worn down SO much that the fillets are vanished on each side of it. He showed me what they look like on the other two journals. (I might not have spelled that right, but I mean the deep grooves at each side of the journal, between the "high part" that is like a roller and the cast iron.) Also because it is worn down so much, the oil galley hole in that journal doesn't have a "shoulder" on it like the others do. It just looks like the kind of hole you would make with a paper punch. And it has a crack going out of it on each side, around the roller part-way. He magnafluxed (I got to see that!!!!!) it to see something I did not understand -- I *think* how bad or how extensive or meaningful that crack is. He said he does not do the crankshafts himself, that an older man who owns the shop does them. So he is going to ask him if he thinks this journal can be built up enough to then regrind it.

BUT in addition to all this, I don't know if you remember the "blistering" on the bearing for this journal, that I took a picture of yesterday. It turns out it's on the journal "rim" itself as well, and it's not from the rod that went south with the spun bearing. It's from the CLUTCH!!!! He said that when someone pushes and pushes on the clutch too much, it tends to push the whole crankshaft forward. And that has worn this journal "rim" that way. That's why the bearing looked that way. And this is apparently a possibly serious detraction to the chance of successfully building up and regrinding the crankshaft. He said I should start looking for one so I know how much it would cost, so that when the other man comes up with an estimate (if it can be repaired) I will know which way is the better way to go. He added that poor Arthur has been worked pretty hard, and that someone drove him for quite a long time after they really should have stopped.

Sigh. Next up -- oil pan. And then two nicer pictures after that.

Thank you again for looking into the shipping cost!

Dawn

So sorry about all this dissapointing and frustrating news... hang in there!

I suppose that it"s not appropriate for youngsters to overtly give their elders bits of wisdom; but this comes from my Mum who"se your age, so maybe it"ll pass muster... "It takes 10 good things in a day to make it feel like a good one, and 1 bad thing to make it feel like a crappy one." We all have to focus more on the good things, and it seems like you"ve had so many on this project; the joy that you"ve clearly taken in studying Arthur, the accomplishments as you"ve taken him apart, and in the not too distant future your work will bear fruit in the form of a fully running Arthur. That"s one helluva set of good things there!

Sorry if that was too much...

Colin

Truly, working on Arthur and being part of this extraordinary YT community is something beyond my wildest expectations. I honestly can't be too downhearted about any developments in the long term. The process itself has been phenomenal! (In fact, I plan to sit out in the pleasant sun in a few moments and clean on the carburetor some more. Talk about idyllic!)

Thanks for your words of wisdom! It sounds like your Mum isn't the only smart one in your family!

Dawn

"He said he does not do the crankshafts himself, that an older man who owns the shop does them. So he is going to ask him if he thinks this journal can be built up enough to then regrind it."

Judging from that comment and the looks of the shop in your picture they may be better equipped than a lot of others. If they do that work in-house it may not be as expensive as you might think. As other's have mentioned a refurbished crank with bearings is about $375 and I suspect your old one is not an acceptable core. Personally my break point for a used crank would be about $100 but I'm not as budget concious as you probably are. Refurbishing a used crank is going to run you better part of $150 by the time it's cleaned, fluxed, and polished. Add another $50+ for bearings.

"BUT in addition to all this, I don't know if you remember the "blistering" on the bearing for this journal, that I took a picture of yesterday. It turns out it's on the journal "rim" itself as well, and it's not from the rod that went south with the spun bearing. It's from the CLUTCH!!!! He said that when someone pushes and pushes on the clutch too much, it tends to push the whole crankshaft forward."

That'a a wear issue in all motors not necessarily related to over use of the clutch and it's why some motors have separate thrust bearings on the crank. When it wears (and all motors do) it is reground and an oversize (thicker) bearing is installed to adjust the crankshaft endplay. Here's a pic of the thrust bearing setup on a Triumph Spitfire (powered by Ferguson ;-) motor.

Good luck,

TOH

I think I'm more like "budget comatose," but ... :-) Do you mean by "break point," that you would only buy a used crank if you could get it for $100, if the alternative was to repair the damaged one?

"Refurbishing a used crank is going to run you better part of $150 by the time it's cleaned, fluxed, and polished. Add another $50+ for bearings."

WOW! This is REALLY good to know!!!! Wow! So if I understood your first statement correctly, then you are saying that in reality a $100 used crankshaft is $300 by the time it's in the tractor?

THANK YOU for the picture of the thrust bearing!! I had read about that and the pushing on the whole system in the Army manual, but could not find anything about it at all in the I&T FO-4. Why doesn't the N have one? (Sure looks like Arthur could have USED one!!) Is there something I can put in there when I reinstall everything so the thrust will be absorbed other than by the crankshaft?

Dawn

I'm sorry you got some bad news about Arthur. He took a lot of heat when that bearing spun but he had enough heart to stay together for you. Like a surgen, it sounds like he is in good hands with this machine shop so far. I wish I could have a new crank installed in my old body! Wait..that came out funny..well you know what I mean.

I dont have any spare parts but would like to help out any way I can.

You are so right about the machine shop! I feel really good about it all so far, and that's really important given my lack of expertise and my large emotional investment in Arthur. Ah me. The learning is sometimes fun and sometimes not so much fun, but BOY am I learning a lot!!!!!

Shouldn't you be checking the rudder flaps or radar or something? :-)

Dawn

You know I don"t have any spare parts...yet! I bought jeans the other day and seemed to have shrunk 2 inches, where did they go?? At least my waist size is the same, no dickie doo.

Just got in from Basel. It"s good to be home!

Several good options and opinions on yer crankshaft. Welding journals is expensive and usually reserved for "exotic" engines; like Caterpillar, Ferrii, Chrysler Hemi. Your call $$$.

Yer castiron oilpan. DO NOT ARC-WELD. It will crack like glass as it cools unless slowly cooled in oven for 24-hrs.

Howsomevers; you can "braze" castiron with brass-rod and flux. ...OR... you can actually weld with castiron rod and oxyacetylene torch. (my choice)

I think it would be cost effecive to have it professionally gas welded with castiron rod by experienced welder. Call around, yellow pages. etc, and iff'n welder sez I can arc-weld it with nickel rod, you say bye-bye..... ..Dell

Thank you for the detailed information about welding and brazing, and the possibilities and consequences of them. I plan to call over there later this afternoon to let the machinist know I've pretty much wrapped my head around the notion of the new oil pan and new crankshaft at this point if they are necessary, and that he doesn't need to go to herculean efforts to save those parts. (I could tell he felt some pressure from me to do it, as I was really dismayed at the time. And taking pictures of him and the shop for my notebook and all, which I am sure just isn't what he usually has to put up with. All in all, he was kind not to simply throw me out! LOL)

:-)

Dawn

I have to admit, the first thing (and practically the last thing) the machinist said to me is that I would very likely need to buy a new crank and a new oil pan. I'm pretty sure the only reason he said things MIGHT be able to be fixed is that I was so obviously distressed.

Whew. So you guys and he are ALL in agreement, and I am simply going to have to buck up and get 'er done! :-)

Thanks again!
Dawn

Well, here is how I got the block in my truck. I backed up to the shop door and put down the tailgate, then rolled the engine stand over with the block on it. Then I turned the block back over right-side up, and since the oil pan was off it, the bottom of the block was only about 3 inches lower than the edge of the tailgate. So I had my two friends climb into the back of the truck and stand on the tailgate, and that "sagged" it just enough (on the springs of the rear end) that I was able to kind of "oomph" the edge of the block up onto the very lip of the tailgate. I have a liner in there, so then the block pushed in farther. Then I took off the bolts holding it to the engine stand.

It made me glad my truck is kind of old and saggy in the back (like me! LOL).

Dawn

Thank you so much for this information!!! It's also really GREAT to know the weight on an oil pan, as this will allow me to figure out the shipping regardless of where I get it. I appreciate that figure immensely!

Dawn

• salvage yards

Yes, the Bridgeport tractor yard is pretty close to me -- about maybe 85 miles? I'll give them a call! I didn't know about the one in Ainsworth, so I'll check into it as well, and look through the list to see if there might be one in Wyoming or South Dakota that's close enough (since we're close to both state lines).

THANK YOU!!!

Dawn

Reground crankshafts for Ns are available for around $300, including bearings. Brand new crankshafts are available for around $340, without bearings.

You should be able to find a serviceable used crankshaft for around $150 but you should add to this the cost of grinding it.

Dean

As far as decking the head - be very carefull. There is not much clearance in stock form. I think I remember hearing that they can only be shaved .010" or so, and yours may have been decked before already.

I would replace the oil pan. Only because it is a structural member of your tractor. But others more experienced can chime in on this area.

As far as the valves - you did absolutely the best thing. I have removed valves before - and I would GLADLY spend $20 to have someone do this for me.

This is just another challenge. Remember, a rebuild of this size and scope is just a lot of little battles. This is what makes this so fun, and you will find a solution to win this particular battle.

Good luck,
Dan

Thank you. You're right of course. I guess it was just such a disappointment compared to what I'd hoped for that I lost my balance for a while. But this IS all part of the process, and that IS what I signed on for!!!! So I'm back in it with a smile instead of a frown!!! (Hey- guess I'd better change the title line on this, huh?)

Dawn

Thank you. You have put things in beautiful perspective. I really was seeing it with my heart, and this is a time when heart, mind, and ... well, cast iron have to ALL be part of the mix.

I can do it. And Arthur can do it. And we WILL plow that big beautiful garden plot someday where I am going to plant winter wheat!!!

Thanks for the "shot in the arm"!!!

Dawn

Give me until, say, Saturday. THEN you can tell me about the reaper with the self-propelled engine but that requires a 75 hp tractor... :-)

You guys are gonna' smack yourselves in the forehead over this one, that I did not post a picture of it before. It's because I thought it must not be important. (sheesh!)

See what looks like old gum smeared along the oil pan where I drew the arrow? I kept trying to scrape that off and clean it. I thought it was some kind of sealant goop that "dripped" down. No. It is a crack someone tried to fix. Bryan saw it immediately and showed me that on the inside it runs way farther, all the way to the bottom of the oil pan. He is going to find out if it can be welded, too, and what the cost would be. But he said to look for prices on an oil pan as well and for the same reason (to compare with repair cost).

Dawn

Here is the stuff being unloaded in the machinists' bay. He is already getting a close look at the crankshaft, and I was blissfully unaware at the time I took this photo of what it was he was studying with such attention.

I know it can all be either fixed or replaced. It just makes me sad because I wanted to have as much of Arthur's original engine as possible. And now that I see how poorly my observations and photos represent the parts, I am very worried that there are more things wrong, that there is no way for you or me to know about from what I've done so far.

Sigh. But at least he's receiving professional "treatment" now. I even wussed out and took the block over with the camshaft and valves still in it, as he said he would remove them for an additional $20.

The shop seems kinda' empty...

You know, it's funny but it feels that way to me, too. Maybe it's because the serial number is stamped on it, but the block DOES seem like the "heart" of Arthur. And so far as I know, THAT is ok!

:-)

Dawn